[Trombone-l] [c-m] "Gold Mine" of OLD Music

Wed Mar 22 15:18:40 CDT 2023

Just to quickly respond to the original email without, hopefully, starting a big contentious discussion here -

The Fillmore "trombone" pieces were all composed for Minstrel Shows where much of the entertainment centered around ridiculing people of African descent. Those shows were popular in the Jim Crow era when segregation was the rule of the land in much of the US and the stereotypes being portrayed in those shows was intended to preserve sentiment against people of color. Blackface featured prominently in those shows.

For me, changing titles is a waste of time, because I know what the composer's intent was in writing those pieces, and I don't wish to participate in carrying on the tradition. I used to play "Lassus" as a trombone demo on children's concerts - not anymore. I don't feel bad about playing this music in the past, but I have more information and context at this point and have come to the conclusion that if even one person feels that I am disrespecting an entire race of people by performing it, then it's not for me.

Fillmore wrote some marches, etc. with not only no objectionable titles, but also no connection to racist forms of entertainment. I wouldn't have an issue with playing some of those pieces. To me it's like humor - there are some old jokes that "wear well" to this day, but some that most of us would never repeat. Society evolves - I hope I have too.

Jim Scott
________________________________
From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Raymond Horton via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2023 1:18 PM
To: c-m at groups.io <c-m at groups.io>; List Trombone <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] [c-m] "Gold Mine" of OLD Music

[△EXTERNAL]

*Fillmore was a notorious racist. * *There was a long chain of discussions
about these pieces on trombone-l at trombonelist.org
<trombone-l at trombonelist.org> several years back.  Some members felt they
could be played with some context included, some wanted them banned
outright.  *

Henry Filmore's "Trombone Family":

   - "Miss Trombone (A Slippery Rag)" (1908)
   - "Teddy Trombone (A Brother to Miss Trombone)" (1911)
   - "Lassus Trombone (The Cullud Valet to Miss Trombone)" (1915)

*This one became the biggest "hit," despite the fact that it is usually
played much faster than originally indicated, something like "A Slow Rag,"
IIRC.  "Lassus" is short for molasses, as in "as slow as molasses in
January."   *

   - "Pahson Trombone (Lassus Trombone's 'Ole Man')" (1916)
   - "Sally Trombone (Pahson Trombone's Eldest Gal Some Crow)" (1917) *If
   it could be divorced from it's very racist origin, musically one of the
   best.*
   - "Slim Trombone (Sally Trombone's Cousin- the Jazzin' One Step Kid)"
   (1918) *Ditto*
   - "Mose Trombone (He's Slim Trombone's Buddy)" (1919)
   - "Shoutin' Liza Trombone (Mose Trombone's Ah-finity)" (1920) (Also
   known as "Hallelujah Trombone" for the quote from Handel's "Messiah"
   <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messiah_Part_II#44>) *The second most
   popular.*
   - "Hot Trombone (He's Jes a Fren' ob Shoutin' Liza Trombone)" (1921)
   - "Bones Trombone (He's Jes as Warm as Hot Trombone)" (1922)
   - "Dusty Trombone" (1923)
   - "Bull Trombone (A Cullud Toreador)" (1924)
   - "Lucky Trombone" (1926)
   - "Boss Trombone" (1929)
   - "Ham Trombone" (1929)

Raymond Horton
Composer, Arranger
Minister of Music, Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist, Louisville Orchestra, 1971-2016
Visit us at rayhortonmusic.com

On Wed, Mar 22, 2023 at 2:52 PM David Miller <dpm39560 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi, C-M Friends,
>
>
>
> James Chesterton wrote (clipped):
>
> ===========================
>
> The Terre Haute Community Band has approximately seven hundred band
> arrangements in our files awaiting processing into our active library. Most
> of the pieces, which were gifted to us several years ago, are from the late
> 1880's to 1950. Many of the Octavo pieces are VERY POLITICALLY INCORRECT
> and not perform-able today
>
> ===========================
>
> It seems that many of these un-performable pieces will be in the public
> domain, and I speculate the reason they are not performable has nothing to
> do with the music, but more to do with the title or other text associated
> with the piece.
>
>
>
> For these pieces, namely those in the public domain, which this year in
> the U.S. includes all pieces published in 1927 or earlier, why don’t we
> just re-engrave those pieces and give them a new name (title)?  We could
> perhaps make a note on the inside front cover of the conductor’s score
> acknowledging the source of the tune and what it was originally named, and
> why we have renamed it in this edition.  Of course, we should acknowledge
> the original composer right on the music itself.
>
>
>
> Didn’t Henry Fillmore write a passel of Trombone smears with titles that
> would be somewhat inappropriate today? Most of them are still good music,
> so if they are in the public domain, why not go ahead and re-engrave/rename
> them? That way, we would have a big source of great music for us all to
> play.
>
>
>
> If this becomes a thing, we should probably have a central clearing house
> to (a) coordinate renamings and re-engravings, to make sure (b) there is no
> duplication of effort or conflicts in re-namings. But we can discuss that
> if the idea gains traction.
>
>
>
> Take care, all,
>
>
>
>
> *  David*
> David P. Miller
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Business Founder
> Mississippi Community Symphonic Bands, Inc.
> www.mcsb.us<http://www.mcsb.us>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Composer, Arranger, Publisher of Music for Concert Bands
> Silver Clef Music Publishing, Inc.
> www.SilverClefMusic.com<http://www.SilverClefMusic.com> <http://www.silverclefmusic.com/>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
>
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