[Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6

Jeff Albert jeff at jeffalbert.com
Tue Feb 9 07:05:02 CST 2021


It was Butler. Craig’s bell is a Butler.

----
Jeff Albert
+1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
http://www.jeffalbert.com


> On Feb 8, 2021, at 23:56, Raymond Horton via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I just assumed it was the same brand. I honestly do not remember. Keep hunting around you’ll find it
> 
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger 
> Minister of Music, 
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2021, at 11:24 PM, Laurie Brown via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I checked with deCarbo and found they do not make a Bass Trombone version.
>> As a 64 year old female who loves to play Bass trombone and finding it
>> harder to hold my Bach 50B. I don’t even try my double rotor Bach.
>> 
>> So what company makes the Bass trombone that is referenced in this chain of
>> notes?  I’ve been out of playing in anything but a Community band in
>> decades so I am not familiar with all of the manufacturers out there these
>> days. I’ve stuck with my 8H, 88H tenors and my 2 Bach bass trombones for
>> decades. Which, by the way, I’m looking to sell the 8H and the Bach double
>> rotor to any interested parties.
>> 
>> Laurie Brown
>> BA Music Ed 1976
>> Former 1stMarine Division Band (mid-70s)
>> Retired Aerospace Engineer
>> Now Realtor in Southern AZ
>> Music 🎶 lover
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:00 AM <trombone-l-request at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to
>>>       trombone-l at trombonelist.org
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>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..."
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>  1. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
>>>  2. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Michael Sanders)
>>>  3. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>>>  4. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (James L Scott)
>>>  5. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
>>>  6. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
>>>  7. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Danner, Mearl)
>>>  8. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
>>>  9. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> To: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: craig at parmerlee.com, List Trombone <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:05:26 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig…whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>
>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>, trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:30:18 -0500 (EST)
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig…whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> To: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, Raymond Horton <
>>> horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 16:01:41 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> Carbon fiber definitely will not dent. It might splinter if you hit it
>>> hard enough, but it is certainly more durable than brass.  If you drive
>>> your car over the horn, you will crush it, but I can't imagine breaking
>>> the carbon fiber pieces just banging them against a chair.  With the
>>> Butler horns (and the DeCarbo as well) there are still lots of metal
>>> pieces, and you can damage them as usual.  I suppose any of the joints
>>> could potentially be broken loose.  You might be able to repair that
>>> with glue.
>>> 
>>> If you want to continue playing and the weight is a factor, definitely
>>> do this.  The weight changes everything.  In my case, I replaced only
>>> the bell.  If you are doing this to prolong your playing days, I'd go
>>> for the complete horn to get the maximum weight reduction.  I don't
>>> think you will be sorry.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/7/2021 3:30 PM, Michael Sanders via Trombone-l wrote:
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
>>> michaelsanders6 at q.com>
>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:05:34 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used
>>> to make some of the strongest cases
>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you
>>> can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or
>>> chair.
>>> 
>>> Jim Scott
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> [△EXTERNAL]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig…whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>>> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>>> Cc: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
>>> michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:42:58 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9” bell
>>> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>>> or chair.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Scott
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> [△EXTERNAL]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig…whenever those might happen again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>>> To: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>>> Cc: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>, trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:45:22 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> Bass not mass
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Roger Carmichael via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9” bell
>>> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>>> or chair.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jim Scott
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>>> 
>>>>> [△EXTERNAL]
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>>> 
>>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
>>> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
>>> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
>>> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
>>> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig…whenever those might happen again.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
>>> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
>>> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
>>> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>
>>> To: "trombone-l at trombonelist.org" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Cc:
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:52:26 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
>>> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
>>> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
>>> the price of the slide over the years.
>>> 
>>> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>>> 
>>> Mearl
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
>>> To: Raymond Horton
>>> Cc: trombone-l
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig…whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>>> Cc: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:24:13 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> Excellent question! I can speak to carbon fiber slides, in relation to the
>>> Pbone. I took one on an educational trio gig, just to show as a curiosity.
>>> We were seated on very heavy, old-fashioned type wooden school chairs. I
>>> had the Pbone stuffed loosely in my double trombone gig bag next to my
>>> chair. At one point I leaned over to get a mute or something. The carbon
>>> fiber slide slipped under the leg of the chair and I sat down on it - all
>>> 200 pounds of me plus a lot of weight from the chair, and the slide was not
>>> damaged in the least!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:05 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>>> or chair.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Scott
>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> [△EXTERNAL]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
>>> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
>>> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
>>> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
>>> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig…whenever those might happen again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
>>> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
>>> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
>>> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> To: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>, "trombone-l at trombonelist.org"
>>> <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Cc:
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 20:11:02 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> I have had 3 carbon fiber slides over the years (not counting the pBone
>>> -- which I think is fiberglass & resin).  One was an early "Jimmy Dell"
>>> slide.  The other two I still own are made by Spurling.  I've never
>>> damaged any of them.  The is zero probability of denting the tubes, but
>>> they all have brass end crooks, which can be dented as usual.  The
>>> Butler slides have carbon fiber end crooks.
>>> 
>>> They are bound to be a lot more durable than brass slides.  The only
>>> drawback is that if they aren't aligned perfectly, you can't adjust
>>> them.  But if they are built right, they will never change alignment.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/7/2021 4:52 PM, Danner, Mearl via Trombone-l wrote:
>>>> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
>>> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
>>> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
>>> the price of the slide over the years.
>>>> 
>>>> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>>>> 
>>>> Mearl
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
>>>> To: Raymond Horton
>>>> Cc: trombone-l
>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig…whenever those might happen again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> 
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>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Laurie Brown
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 
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