[Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6
Laurie Brown
lokkenbrown at gmail.com
Mon Feb 8 22:23:27 CST 2021
I checked with deCarbo and found they do not make a Bass Trombone version.
As a 64 year old female who loves to play Bass trombone and finding it
harder to hold my Bach 50B. I don’t even try my double rotor Bach.
So what company makes the Bass trombone that is referenced in this chain of
notes? I’ve been out of playing in anything but a Community band in
decades so I am not familiar with all of the manufacturers out there these
days. I’ve stuck with my 8H, 88H tenors and my 2 Bach bass trombones for
decades. Which, by the way, I’m looking to sell the 8H and the Bach double
rotor to any interested parties.
Laurie Brown
BA Music Ed 1976
Former 1stMarine Division Band (mid-70s)
Retired Aerospace Engineer
Now Realtor in Southern AZ
Music 🎶 lover
On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:00 AM <trombone-l-request at trombonelist.org> wrote:
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> than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
> 2. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Michael Sanders)
> 3. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
> 4. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (James L Scott)
> 5. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
> 6. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
> 7. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Danner, Mearl)
> 8. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
> 9. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> To: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: craig at parmerlee.com, List Trombone <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:05:26 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig…whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar. From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there. It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good. You can mostly play as
> you always have. Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>, trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:30:18 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides. A
> question has arisen in my mind. These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle. What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object? Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter? Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense? Just wondering.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig…whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar. From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there. It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good. You can mostly play as
> you always have. Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> To: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, Raymond Horton <
> horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 16:01:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> Carbon fiber definitely will not dent. It might splinter if you hit it
> hard enough, but it is certainly more durable than brass. If you drive
> your car over the horn, you will crush it, but I can't imagine breaking
> the carbon fiber pieces just banging them against a chair. With the
> Butler horns (and the DeCarbo as well) there are still lots of metal
> pieces, and you can damage them as usual. I suppose any of the joints
> could potentially be broken loose. You might be able to repair that
> with glue.
>
> If you want to continue playing and the weight is a factor, definitely
> do this. The weight changes everything. In my case, I replaced only
> the bell. If you are doing this to prolong your playing days, I'd go
> for the complete horn to get the maximum weight reduction. I don't
> think you will be sorry.
>
>
> On 2/7/2021 3:30 PM, Michael Sanders via Trombone-l wrote:
> > I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides. A
> question has arisen in my mind. These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle. What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object? Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter? Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense? Just wondering.
> >
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
> michaelsanders6 at q.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:05:34 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used
> to make some of the strongest cases
> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you
> can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or
> chair.
>
> Jim Scott
> ________________________________
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> [△EXTERNAL]
>
>
>
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides. A
> question has arisen in my mind. These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle. What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object? Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter? Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense? Just wondering.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig…whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar. From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there. It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good. You can mostly play as
> you always have. Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> Cc: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
> michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:42:58 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> What price range are we talking? Is there a carbon fiber 9” bell
> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> used to make some of the strongest cases
> > for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
> or chair.
> >
> > Jim Scott
> > ________________________________
> > From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> > To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> > Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > [△EXTERNAL]
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides. A
> question has arisen in my mind. These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle. What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object? Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter? Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense? Just wondering.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> > Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >
> > Raymond Horton
> > Composer/Arranger
> > Minister of Music,
> > Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> > Retired Bass Trombonist,
> > Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>
> >> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig…whenever those might happen again.
> >>
> >> -Jeff
> >>
> >> ----
> >> Jeff Albert
> >> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Out front, they do sound similar. From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there. It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good. You can mostly play as
> you always have. Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>
> >>>> -j
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> To: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> Cc: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>, trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:45:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> Bass not mass
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Roger Carmichael via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > What price range are we talking? Is there a carbon fiber 9” bell
> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> used to make some of the strongest cases
> >> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
> or chair.
> >>
> >> Jim Scott
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> >> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> [△EXTERNAL]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides. A
> question has arisen in my mind. These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle. What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object? Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter? Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense? Just wondering.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>
> >> Raymond Horton
> >> Composer/Arranger
> >> Minister of Music,
> >> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>
> >>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig…whenever those might happen again.
> >>>
> >>> -Jeff
> >>>
> >>> ----
> >>> Jeff Albert
> >>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Out front, they do sound similar. From the player's position, it
> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there. It isn't a
> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good. You can mostly
> play as you always have. Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -j
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>
> To: "trombone-l at trombonelist.org" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:52:26 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
> the price of the slide over the years.
>
> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>
> Mearl
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
> To: Raymond Horton
> Cc: trombone-l
> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides. A
> question has arisen in my mind. These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle. What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object? Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter? Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense? Just wondering.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig…whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar. From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there. It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good. You can mostly play as
> you always have. Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> Cc: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:24:13 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> Excellent question! I can speak to carbon fiber slides, in relation to the
> Pbone. I took one on an educational trio gig, just to show as a curiosity.
> We were seated on very heavy, old-fashioned type wooden school chairs. I
> had the Pbone stuffed loosely in my double trombone gig bag next to my
> chair. At one point I leaned over to get a mute or something. The carbon
> fiber slide slipped under the leg of the chair and I sat down on it - all
> 200 pounds of me plus a lot of weight from the chair, and the slide was not
> damaged in the least!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:05 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> used to make some of the strongest cases
> > for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
> or chair.
> >
> > Jim Scott
> > From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> > To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> > Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > [△EXTERNAL]
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides. A
> question has arisen in my mind. These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle. What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object? Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter? Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense? Just wondering.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> > Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >
> > Raymond Horton
> > Composer/Arranger
> > Minister of Music,
> > Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> > Retired Bass Trombonist,
> > Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >
> > > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> > >
> > > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig…whenever those might happen again.
> > >
> > > -Jeff
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Jeff Albert
> > > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Out front, they do sound similar. From the player's position, it
> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there. It isn't a
> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good. You can mostly
> play as you always have. Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> > >>
> > >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> > >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> > >>>
> > >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will make it sound like you either way.
> > >>>
> > >>> -j
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Trombone-l mailing list
> > > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> To: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>, "trombone-l at trombonelist.org"
> <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 20:11:02 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> I have had 3 carbon fiber slides over the years (not counting the pBone
> -- which I think is fiberglass & resin). One was an early "Jimmy Dell"
> slide. The other two I still own are made by Spurling. I've never
> damaged any of them. The is zero probability of denting the tubes, but
> they all have brass end crooks, which can be dented as usual. The
> Butler slides have carbon fiber end crooks.
>
> They are bound to be a lot more durable than brass slides. The only
> drawback is that if they aren't aligned perfectly, you can't adjust
> them. But if they are built right, they will never change alignment.
>
>
>
> On 2/7/2021 4:52 PM, Danner, Mearl via Trombone-l wrote:
> > I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
> the price of the slide over the years.
> >
> > Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
> >
> > Mearl
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
> > To: Raymond Horton
> > Cc: trombone-l
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides. A
> question has arisen in my mind. These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle. What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object? Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter? Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense? Just wondering.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> > Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >
> > Raymond Horton
> > Composer/Arranger
> > Minister of Music,
> > Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> > Retired Bass Trombonist,
> > Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>
> >> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig…whenever those might happen again.
> >>
> >> -Jeff
> >>
> >> ----
> >> Jeff Albert
> >> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Out front, they do sound similar. From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there. It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good. You can mostly play as
> you always have. Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>
> >>>> -j
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >
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