[Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells

[Raymond Horton]

Excellent question! I can speak to carbon fiber slides, in relation to the Pbone. I took one on an educational trio gig, just to show as a curiosity. We were seated on very heavy, old-fashioned type wooden school chairs. I had the Pbone stuffed loosely in my double trombone gig bag next to my chair. At one point I leaned over to get a mute or something. The carbon fiber slide slipped under the leg of the chair and I sat down on it - all 200 pounds of me plus a lot of weight from the chair, and the slide was not damaged in the least!

Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger 
Minister of Music, 
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:05 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> 
> 
> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used to make some of the strongest cases
> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or chair.
> 
> Jim Scott
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>  
> [△EXTERNAL]
> 
> 
> 
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> 
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> 
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> 
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig…whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
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