From jeff at jeffalbert.com  Mon Feb  1 08:03:00 2021
From: jeff at jeffalbert.com (Jeff Albert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 08:03:00 -0600
Subject: [Trombone-l] A weird thing I made
In-Reply-To: <YQBPR0101MB1377A9FE3FEF0472E82049CBA1B69@YQBPR0101MB1377.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <YQBPR0101MB1377A9FE3FEF0472E82049CBA1B69@YQBPR0101MB1377.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <C1F4B7FF-179F-477D-9DB0-13FB10C39977@jeffalbert.com>

Thanks. In Ollie?s defense, he was only hearing the acoustic trombone. All of the effects were only in the headphones. He will occasionally sing along up around high B flat. My wife plays cello and he is much more likely to sing along with her. His pitch isn?t terrible. he does give me lots of curious tilted head looks.

Jeff Albert
+1 504-315-5167 (Voice/Signal/SMS)

Sent from a mobile device with an odd keyboard and curious autocorrect. Your understanding is appreciated.

> On Jan 31, 2021, at 9:30 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Very cool! I'm jealous - your dog is so mellow! Mine would be singing along at the top of her lungs!
> 
> Seriously, great playing and very inventive use of the technology!
> 
> Jim Scott
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 31, 2021 7:36 PM
> To: markmcgrain via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Subject: [Trombone-l] A weird thing I made
>  
> [?EXTERNAL]
> 
> 
> 
> I was asked to make a track for a bandcamp compilation to raise money for live music venues. This is not that track, but it another take from that session: https://youtu.be/IpC3UUTyYPI <https://youtu.be/IpC3UUTyYPI>
> 
> It was improvised and the gear is a delay pedal, a harmonizer pedal, a sampler I made in Max 8 and control with a soft step. Oh, and a trombone.
> 
> I hope you enjoy it?it is kind of weird.
> 
> Peace,
> Jeff
> 
> ----
> Jeff Albert
> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org


From jim at jimnova.com  Mon Feb  1 09:57:59 2021
From: jim at jimnova.com (Jim Nova)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 10:57:59 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Wide Receiver video
Message-ID: <815D0655-158A-4EA4-BD6D-7436195B5596@jimnova.com>

Hi everyone!

Turns out that many S.E. Shires trombone artists are huge football fans! So I decided to take my trombone arrangement of the NBC Football Theme, Wide Receiver, by John Williams (of course!) and expand it into a 10 part version! We all may root for different NFL teams, but we're all on the Shires Team!

Musicians
Joe Alessi
Megan Boutin
Jeremy Branson
Justin Cook
Brian Hecht
Ross Holcombe
Martin McCain
Jim Nova
Alexis Smith
Nate Zgonc

https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ <https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ>

James Nova
Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
Brass Area Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
jimnova.com






From studer_je at hotmail.com  Mon Feb  1 10:00:11 2021
From: studer_je at hotmail.com (Jon Studer)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 16:00:11 +0000
Subject: [Trombone-l] Wide Receiver video
In-Reply-To: <815D0655-158A-4EA4-BD6D-7436195B5596@jimnova.com>
References: <815D0655-158A-4EA4-BD6D-7436195B5596@jimnova.com>
Message-ID: <BYAPR01MB5544D54D7CCC971A41DEE04B9EB69@BYAPR01MB5544.prod.exchangelabs.com>

Great video! Exceptional work! 

On Feb 1, 2021, at 07:59, Jim Nova via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:

?Hi everyone!

Turns out that many S.E. Shires trombone artists are huge football fans! So I decided to take my trombone arrangement of the NBC Football Theme, Wide Receiver, by John Williams (of course!) and expand it into a 10 part version! We all may root for different NFL teams, but we're all on the Shires Team!

Musicians
Joe Alessi
Megan Boutin
Jeremy Branson
Justin Cook
Brian Hecht
Ross Holcombe
Martin McCain
Jim Nova
Alexis Smith
Nate Zgonc

https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ <https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ>

James Nova
Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
Brass Area Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
jimnova.com




_______________________________________________
Trombone-l mailing list
Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org

From jamesnova at comcast.net  Mon Feb  1 10:59:16 2021
From: jamesnova at comcast.net (James Nova)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:59:16 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Wide Receiver video
In-Reply-To: <BYAPR01MB5544D54D7CCC971A41DEE04B9EB69@BYAPR01MB5544.prod.exchangelabs.com>
References: <BYAPR01MB5544D54D7CCC971A41DEE04B9EB69@BYAPR01MB5544.prod.exchangelabs.com>
Message-ID: <9DE4E145-C480-4803-AA85-96A0355E6A1E@comcast.net>

Thanks!

James Nova
Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
Brass Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
jimnova.com

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:01 AM, Jon Studer <studer_je at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Great video! Exceptional work! 
> 
> On Feb 1, 2021, at 07:59, Jim Nova via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Hi everyone!
> 
> Turns out that many S.E. Shires trombone artists are huge football fans! So I decided to take my trombone arrangement of the NBC Football Theme, Wide Receiver, by John Williams (of course!) and expand it into a 10 part version! We all may root for different NFL teams, but we're all on the Shires Team!
> 
> Musicians
> Joe Alessi
> Megan Boutin
> Jeremy Branson
> Justin Cook
> Brian Hecht
> Ross Holcombe
> Martin McCain
> Jim Nova
> Alexis Smith
> Nate Zgonc
> 
> https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ <https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ>
> 
> James Nova
> Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> Brass Area Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
> Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
> jimnova.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org




From jeff at jeffalbert.com  Mon Feb  1 11:15:17 2021
From: jeff at jeffalbert.com (Jeff Albert)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 11:15:17 -0600
Subject: [Trombone-l] Wide Receiver video
In-Reply-To: <9DE4E145-C480-4803-AA85-96A0355E6A1E@comcast.net>
References: <BYAPR01MB5544D54D7CCC971A41DEE04B9EB69@BYAPR01MB5544.prod.exchangelabs.com>
	<9DE4E145-C480-4803-AA85-96A0355E6A1E@comcast.net>
Message-ID: <3E866767-115D-4C2A-B533-1FEF840B03BD@jeffalbert.com>

Jim,

I think you were just flexing on your jersey collection. ;)

----
Jeff Albert
+1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
http://www.jeffalbert.com


> On Feb 1, 2021, at 10:59, James Nova via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> James Nova
> Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> Brass Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
> Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
> jimnova.com
> 
>> On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:01 AM, Jon Studer <studer_je at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Great video! Exceptional work! 
>> 
>> On Feb 1, 2021, at 07:59, Jim Nova via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Hi everyone!
>> 
>> Turns out that many S.E. Shires trombone artists are huge football fans! So I decided to take my trombone arrangement of the NBC Football Theme, Wide Receiver, by John Williams (of course!) and expand it into a 10 part version! We all may root for different NFL teams, but we're all on the Shires Team!
>> 
>> Musicians
>> Joe Alessi
>> Megan Boutin
>> Jeremy Branson
>> Justin Cook
>> Brian Hecht
>> Ross Holcombe
>> Martin McCain
>> Jim Nova
>> Alexis Smith
>> Nate Zgonc
>> 
>> https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ <https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ>
>> 
>> James Nova
>> Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
>> Brass Area Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
>> Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
>> jimnova.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org



From jim at jimnova.com  Mon Feb  1 11:18:17 2021
From: jim at jimnova.com (Jim Nova)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 12:18:17 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Wide Receiver video
In-Reply-To: <3E866767-115D-4C2A-B533-1FEF840B03BD@jeffalbert.com>
References: <3E866767-115D-4C2A-B533-1FEF840B03BD@jeffalbert.com>
Message-ID: <67FDB25A-332B-4558-B768-BD2A94BFA174@fastmail.com>

Who me? ? 

James Nova
Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
Brass Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
jimnova.com

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 12:16 PM, Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Jim,
> 
> I think you were just flexing on your jersey collection. ;)
> 
> ----
> Jeff Albert
> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> 
> 
>> On Feb 1, 2021, at 10:59, James Nova via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Thanks!
>> 
>> James Nova
>> Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
>> Brass Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
>> Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
>> jimnova.com
>> 
>>> On Feb 1, 2021, at 11:01 AM, Jon Studer <studer_je at hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Great video! Exceptional work! 
>>> 
>>> On Feb 1, 2021, at 07:59, Jim Nova via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Hi everyone!
>>> 
>>> Turns out that many S.E. Shires trombone artists are huge football fans! So I decided to take my trombone arrangement of the NBC Football Theme, Wide Receiver, by John Williams (of course!) and expand it into a 10 part version! We all may root for different NFL teams, but we're all on the Shires Team!
>>> 
>>> Musicians
>>> Joe Alessi
>>> Megan Boutin
>>> Jeremy Branson
>>> Justin Cook
>>> Brian Hecht
>>> Ross Holcombe
>>> Martin McCain
>>> Jim Nova
>>> Alexis Smith
>>> Nate Zgonc
>>> 
>>> https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ <https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ>
>>> 
>>> James Nova
>>> Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
>>> Brass Area Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
>>> Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
>>> jimnova.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 


From pricetaylor at gmail.com  Mon Feb  1 11:20:42 2021
From: pricetaylor at gmail.com (Price Taylor)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 09:20:42 -0800
Subject: [Trombone-l] Wide Receiver video
In-Reply-To: <815D0655-158A-4EA4-BD6D-7436195B5596@jimnova.com>
References: <815D0655-158A-4EA4-BD6D-7436195B5596@jimnova.com>
Message-ID: <CAO9DafdvK-hYHSXJBJ_DBPmutGz0PqpDqJT2AXihzmJCRVj-gQ@mail.gmail.com>

Wow, blown away, fantastic!

On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 7:58 AM Jim Nova via Trombone-l <
trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:

> Hi everyone!
>
> Turns out that many S.E. Shires trombone artists are huge football fans!
> So I decided to take my trombone arrangement of the NBC Football Theme,
> Wide Receiver, by John Williams (of course!) and expand it into a 10 part
> version! We all may root for different NFL teams, but we're all on the
> Shires Team!
>
> Musicians
> Joe Alessi
> Megan Boutin
> Jeremy Branson
> Justin Cook
> Brian Hecht
> Ross Holcombe
> Martin McCain
> Jim Nova
> Alexis Smith
> Nate Zgonc
>
> https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ <https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ>
>
> James Nova
> Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
> Brass Area Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
> Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
> jimnova.com
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>


From jamesnova at comcast.net  Mon Feb  1 11:32:08 2021
From: jamesnova at comcast.net (James Nova)
Date: Mon, 1 Feb 2021 12:32:08 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Wide Receiver video
In-Reply-To: <CAO9DafdvK-hYHSXJBJ_DBPmutGz0PqpDqJT2AXihzmJCRVj-gQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAO9DafdvK-hYHSXJBJ_DBPmutGz0PqpDqJT2AXihzmJCRVj-gQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <44085B84-BD5F-4FEF-BE8C-FAFDAD2EB74F@comcast.net>

Thanks!

James Nova
Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
Brass Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
jimnova.com

> On Feb 1, 2021, at 12:21 PM, Price Taylor <pricetaylor at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> ?Wow, blown away, fantastic!
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 1, 2021 at 7:58 AM Jim Nova via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi everyone!
>> 
>> Turns out that many S.E. Shires trombone artists are huge football fans!
>> So I decided to take my trombone arrangement of the NBC Football Theme,
>> Wide Receiver, by John Williams (of course!) and expand it into a 10 part
>> version! We all may root for different NFL teams, but we're all on the
>> Shires Team!
>> 
>> Musicians
>> Joe Alessi
>> Megan Boutin
>> Jeremy Branson
>> Justin Cook
>> Brian Hecht
>> Ross Holcombe
>> Martin McCain
>> Jim Nova
>> Alexis Smith
>> Nate Zgonc
>> 
>> https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ <https://youtu.be/sQvtmbcHuJQ>
>> 
>> James Nova
>> Trombone - Pittsburgh Symphony Orchestra
>> Brass Area Coordinator and Adjunct Trombone Faculty - Duquesne University
>> Brass Coach - Three Rivers Young Peoples Orchestras
>> jimnova.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org




From horton.raymond at gmail.com  Tue Feb  2 07:38:01 2021
From: horton.raymond at gmail.com (Raymond Horton)
Date: Tue, 2 Feb 2021 08:38:01 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Artists making classical music cool,
 from Lindsey Stirling to Masego
Message-ID: <84423ABC-2983-4944-9117-9D217AB46BB6@gmail.com>

Includes a nice mention of Trombone Shorty:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/music/2021/01/29/young-artists-making-classical-music-cool-lindsey-stirling-masego-trombone-shorty-lang-lang/4257094001/


Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger 
Minister of Music, 
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016


From craig at parmerlee.com  Thu Feb  4 20:35:10 2021
From: craig at parmerlee.com (Craig Parmerlee)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 21:35:10 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
Message-ID: <40f96603-3d4e-a6fe-545d-016ffbf95513@parmerlee.com>

I have been interested in adding a carbon fiber bell to my Edwards bass 
setup for a long time.? While I have not had any lasting shoulder or 
other joint problems, but I have known several bass trombone players who 
gave up playing early because of the ergonomics of the instrument.? One 
way to deal with this is through braces and other gadgets that make the 
instrument easier to hold.? I have used those for a long time.? Another 
way to address the problem is lighten the weight on the instrument, and 
carbon fiber is an option.

I made some inquiries 5-10 years ago and nobody was in a position to 
supply carbon components other than slides.? That has all changed 
recently, with Butler and some others leading in the expanded use of 
carbon fiber.? Butler is now making a complete carbon bass trombone (it 
still has a lot of metal in it, but is much lighter than traditional 
trombones.)? In my case, I wanted to keep my Edwards horn intact and 
change only the bell.? Butler is now able to do this, at least with 
Edwards trombones, and probably others.? They famously updated one of 
Doug Yeo's Yamaha trombones.

So I received my new Edwards-style carbon fiber bell last week. I'd 
rather not do a detailed report on an open Internet forum.? I can say it 
is well made.? It is about 1/3 the weight of the bell it replaced.? I 
don't notice the weight reduction as much as I feel the better balance.? 
I never really thought of the original Edwards as particularly 
nose-heavy, but with the carbon bell, it seems to float on its own.? 
Timbre is good, intonation is fine.? I notice no reduction in sound 
volume.? There are a few other differences, but I don't think they are 
any greater than the difference between a heavy or light bell or yellow 
versus red brass.? If anybody has a serious interest, I'd be happy to 
provide additional information and sound samples off list.


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




From jeff at jeffalbert.com  Thu Feb  4 23:16:12 2021
From: jeff at jeffalbert.com (Jeff Albert)
Date: Thu, 4 Feb 2021 23:16:12 -0600
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <40f96603-3d4e-a6fe-545d-016ffbf95513@parmerlee.com>
References: <40f96603-3d4e-a6fe-545d-016ffbf95513@parmerlee.com>
Message-ID: <F0D61A72-4D40-4669-8267-17068DB98EA5@jeffalbert.com>

Does it look cool?

For as much as I used to dig into the minutiae of gear choices, in my old(er?) age I am finding myself much more in the camp of play something that feels good and forget about the rest. It sounds like a cool addition. Congrats. I?d love to hear if your perceptions are similar after a month or six with it.

-Jeff

----
Jeff Albert
+1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
http://www.jeffalbert.com


> On Feb 4, 2021, at 20:35, Craig Parmerlee via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> I have been interested in adding a carbon fiber bell to my Edwards bass setup for a long time.  While I have not had any lasting shoulder or other joint problems, but I have known several bass trombone players who gave up playing early because of the ergonomics of the instrument.  One way to deal with this is through braces and other gadgets that make the instrument easier to hold.  I have used those for a long time.  Another way to address the problem is lighten the weight on the instrument, and carbon fiber is an option.
> 
> I made some inquiries 5-10 years ago and nobody was in a position to supply carbon components other than slides.  That has all changed recently, with Butler and some others leading in the expanded use of carbon fiber.  Butler is now making a complete carbon bass trombone (it still has a lot of metal in it, but is much lighter than traditional trombones.)  In my case, I wanted to keep my Edwards horn intact and change only the bell.  Butler is now able to do this, at least with Edwards trombones, and probably others.  They famously updated one of Doug Yeo's Yamaha trombones.
> 
> So I received my new Edwards-style carbon fiber bell last week. I'd rather not do a detailed report on an open Internet forum.  I can say it is well made.  It is about 1/3 the weight of the bell it replaced.  I don't notice the weight reduction as much as I feel the better balance.  I never really thought of the original Edwards as particularly nose-heavy, but with the carbon bell, it seems to float on its own.  Timbre is good, intonation is fine.  I notice no reduction in sound volume.  There are a few other differences, but I don't think they are any greater than the difference between a heavy or light bell or yellow versus red brass.  If anybody has a serious interest, I'd be happy to provide additional information and sound samples off list.
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org



From horton.raymond at gmail.com  Fri Feb  5 07:24:58 2021
From: horton.raymond at gmail.com (Raymond Horton)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 08:24:58 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <F0D61A72-4D40-4669-8267-17068DB98EA5@jeffalbert.com>
References: <F0D61A72-4D40-4669-8267-17068DB98EA5@jeffalbert.com>
Message-ID: <B676B8F6-D24F-490B-BBD2-26E6F54563D0@gmail.com>

I played the  carbon fiber bass Trombone that was at Muncie for the ITW summer 2019. I liked the horn, the way it looks, the way it sounds, and especially the light weight. Not so fond of the high price!

Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger 
Minister of Music, 
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

> On Feb 5, 2021, at 12:19 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Does it look cool?
> 
> For as much as I used to dig into the minutiae of gear choices, in my old(er?) age I am finding myself much more in the camp of play something that feels good and forget about the rest. It sounds like a cool addition. Congrats. I?d love to hear if your perceptions are similar after a month or six with it.
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> ----
> Jeff Albert
> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> 
> 
>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 20:35, Craig Parmerlee via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> I have been interested in adding a carbon fiber bell to my Edwards bass setup for a long time.  While I have not had any lasting shoulder or other joint problems, but I have known several bass trombone players who gave up playing early because of the ergonomics of the instrument.  One way to deal with this is through braces and other gadgets that make the instrument easier to hold.  I have used those for a long time.  Another way to address the problem is lighten the weight on the instrument, and carbon fiber is an option.
>> 
>> I made some inquiries 5-10 years ago and nobody was in a position to supply carbon components other than slides.  That has all changed recently, with Butler and some others leading in the expanded use of carbon fiber.  Butler is now making a complete carbon bass trombone (it still has a lot of metal in it, but is much lighter than traditional trombones.)  In my case, I wanted to keep my Edwards horn intact and change only the bell.  Butler is now able to do this, at least with Edwards trombones, and probably others.  They famously updated one of Doug Yeo's Yamaha trombones.
>> 
>> So I received my new Edwards-style carbon fiber bell last week. I'd rather not do a detailed report on an open Internet forum.  I can say it is well made.  It is about 1/3 the weight of the bell it replaced.  I don't notice the weight reduction as much as I feel the better balance.  I never really thought of the original Edwards as particularly nose-heavy, but with the carbon bell, it seems to float on its own.  Timbre is good, intonation is fine.  I notice no reduction in sound volume.  There are a few other differences, but I don't think they are any greater than the difference between a heavy or light bell or yellow versus red brass.  If anybody has a serious interest, I'd be happy to provide additional information and sound samples off list.
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org



From jeff at jeffalbert.com  Fri Feb  5 09:22:27 2021
From: jeff at jeffalbert.com (Jeff Albert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 09:22:27 -0600
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <B676B8F6-D24F-490B-BBD2-26E6F54563D0@gmail.com>
References: <F0D61A72-4D40-4669-8267-17068DB98EA5@jeffalbert.com>
	<B676B8F6-D24F-490B-BBD2-26E6F54563D0@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <37BC1806-AF4B-4626-9D67-037153F1CEF5@jeffalbert.com>

I played one at NAMM a few years ago. I forget the maker, but they are European (Swiss?). It was an interesting proportion, .525 slide and 9in bell.  I think I liked it, from what I could tell on the convention hall floor, but , as Ray said, it was pretty crazy expensive, especially for something that may have ended up as a failed experiment.


----
Jeff Albert
+1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
http://www.jeffalbert.com


> On Feb 5, 2021, at 07:24, Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> I played the  carbon fiber bass Trombone that was at Muncie for the ITW summer 2019. I liked the horn, the way it looks, the way it sounds, and especially the light weight. Not so fond of the high price!
> 
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger 
> Minister of Music, 
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> 
>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 12:19 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Does it look cool?
>> 
>> For as much as I used to dig into the minutiae of gear choices, in my old(er?) age I am finding myself much more in the camp of play something that feels good and forget about the rest. It sounds like a cool addition. Congrats. I?d love to hear if your perceptions are similar after a month or six with it.
>> 
>> -Jeff
>> 
>> ----
>> Jeff Albert
>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 20:35, Craig Parmerlee via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I have been interested in adding a carbon fiber bell to my Edwards bass setup for a long time.  While I have not had any lasting shoulder or other joint problems, but I have known several bass trombone players who gave up playing early because of the ergonomics of the instrument.  One way to deal with this is through braces and other gadgets that make the instrument easier to hold.  I have used those for a long time.  Another way to address the problem is lighten the weight on the instrument, and carbon fiber is an option.
>>> 
>>> I made some inquiries 5-10 years ago and nobody was in a position to supply carbon components other than slides.  That has all changed recently, with Butler and some others leading in the expanded use of carbon fiber.  Butler is now making a complete carbon bass trombone (it still has a lot of metal in it, but is much lighter than traditional trombones.)  In my case, I wanted to keep my Edwards horn intact and change only the bell.  Butler is now able to do this, at least with Edwards trombones, and probably others.  They famously updated one of Doug Yeo's Yamaha trombones.
>>> 
>>> So I received my new Edwards-style carbon fiber bell last week. I'd rather not do a detailed report on an open Internet forum.  I can say it is well made.  It is about 1/3 the weight of the bell it replaced.  I don't notice the weight reduction as much as I feel the better balance.  I never really thought of the original Edwards as particularly nose-heavy, but with the carbon bell, it seems to float on its own.  Timbre is good, intonation is fine.  I notice no reduction in sound volume.  There are a few other differences, but I don't think they are any greater than the difference between a heavy or light bell or yellow versus red brass.  If anybody has a serious interest, I'd be happy to provide additional information and sound samples off list.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org



From craig at parmerlee.com  Fri Feb  5 21:35:49 2021
From: craig at parmerlee.com (Craig Parmerlee)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 22:35:49 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <37BC1806-AF4B-4626-9D67-037153F1CEF5@jeffalbert.com>
References: <F0D61A72-4D40-4669-8267-17068DB98EA5@jeffalbert.com>
	<B676B8F6-D24F-490B-BBD2-26E6F54563D0@gmail.com>
	<37BC1806-AF4B-4626-9D67-037153F1CEF5@jeffalbert.com>
Message-ID: <4c7ab6ab-3815-ede0-d52a-4f449451ca48@parmerlee.com>

I bet that was the DeCarbo.? I have not had hands on one of those.? They 
look nice, but it is a lot of money for a horn that hasn't really taken 
the community by a storm.? I think Steve Ferguson was keeping one in 
stock awhile back, but maybe not anymore.


On 2/5/2021 10:22 AM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> I played one at NAMM a few years ago. I forget the maker, but they are 
> European (Swiss?). It was an interesting proportion, .525 slide and 
> 9in bell. ?I think I liked it, from what I could tell on the 
> convention hall floor, but , as Ray said, it was pretty crazy 
> expensive, especially for something that may have ended up as a failed 
> experiment.
>
>
> ----
> *Jeff Albert*
> +1 (504) 315-5167?(Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://www.jeffalbert.com <http://www.jeffalbert.com>
>
>
>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 07:24, Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com 
>> <mailto:horton.raymond at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I played the ?carbon fiber bass Trombone that was at Muncie for the 
>> ITW summer 2019. I liked the horn, the way it looks, the way it 
>> sounds, and especially the light weight. Not so fond of the high price!
>>
>> Raymond Horton
>> Composer/Arranger
>> Minister of Music,
>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>
>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 12:19 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l 
>>> <trombone-l at trombonelist.org <mailto:trombone-l at trombonelist.org>> 
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> ?Does it look cool?
>>>
>>> For as much as I used to dig into the minutiae of gear choices, in 
>>> my old(er?) age I am finding myself much more in the camp of play 
>>> something that feels good and forget about the rest. It sounds like 
>>> a cool addition. Congrats. I?d love to hear if your perceptions are 
>>> similar after a month or six with it.
>>>
>>> -Jeff
>>>
>>> ----
>>> Jeff Albert
>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com <http://www.jeffalbert.com>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 20:35, Craig Parmerlee via Trombone-l 
>>>> <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I have been interested in adding a carbon fiber bell to my Edwards 
>>>> bass setup for a long time. ?While I have not had any lasting 
>>>> shoulder or other joint problems, but I have known several bass 
>>>> trombone players who gave up playing early because of the 
>>>> ergonomics of the instrument. ?One way to deal with this is through 
>>>> braces and other gadgets that make the instrument easier to hold. 
>>>> ?I have used those for a long time. ?Another way to address the 
>>>> problem is lighten the weight on the instrument, and carbon fiber 
>>>> is an option.
>>>>
>>>> I made some inquiries 5-10 years ago and nobody was in a position 
>>>> to supply carbon components other than slides. ?That has all 
>>>> changed recently, with Butler and some others leading in the 
>>>> expanded use of carbon fiber. ?Butler is now making a complete 
>>>> carbon bass trombone (it still has a lot of metal in it, but is 
>>>> much lighter than traditional trombones.) ?In my case, I wanted to 
>>>> keep my Edwards horn intact and change only the bell. ?Butler is 
>>>> now able to do this, at least with Edwards trombones, and probably 
>>>> others. ?They famously updated one of Doug Yeo's Yamaha trombones.
>>>>
>>>> So I received my new Edwards-style carbon fiber bell last week. I'd 
>>>> rather not do a detailed report on an open Internet forum. ?I can 
>>>> say it is well made. ?It is about 1/3 the weight of the bell it 
>>>> replaced. ?I don't notice the weight reduction as much as I feel 
>>>> the better balance. ?I never really thought of the original Edwards 
>>>> as particularly nose-heavy, but with the carbon bell, it seems to 
>>>> float on its own. ?Timbre is good, intonation is fine. ?I notice no 
>>>> reduction in sound volume. ?There are a few other differences, but 
>>>> I don't think they are any greater than the difference between a 
>>>> heavy or light bell or yellow versus red brass. ?If anybody has a 
>>>> serious interest, I'd be happy to provide additional information 
>>>> and sound samples off list.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>



From jeff at jeffalbert.com  Fri Feb  5 21:54:25 2021
From: jeff at jeffalbert.com (Jeff Albert)
Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2021 21:54:25 -0600
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <4c7ab6ab-3815-ede0-d52a-4f449451ca48@parmerlee.com>
References: <F0D61A72-4D40-4669-8267-17068DB98EA5@jeffalbert.com>
	<B676B8F6-D24F-490B-BBD2-26E6F54563D0@gmail.com>
	<37BC1806-AF4B-4626-9D67-037153F1CEF5@jeffalbert.com>
	<4c7ab6ab-3815-ede0-d52a-4f449451ca48@parmerlee.com>
Message-ID: <BB33EAB7-012A-44D5-AD4B-0EF9699BAC61@jeffalbert.com>

Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.

In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.

-j

----
Jeff Albert
+1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
http://www.jeffalbert.com


> On Feb 5, 2021, at 21:35, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> 
> I bet that was the DeCarbo.  I have not had hands on one of those.  They look nice, but it is a lot of money for a horn that hasn't really taken the community by a storm.  I think Steve Ferguson was keeping one in stock awhile back, but maybe not anymore.
> 
> 
> On 2/5/2021 10:22 AM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>> I played one at NAMM a few years ago. I forget the maker, but they are European (Swiss?). It was an interesting proportion, .525 slide and 9in bell.  I think I liked it, from what I could tell on the convention hall floor, but , as Ray said, it was pretty crazy expensive, especially for something that may have ended up as a failed experiment.
>> 
>> 
>> ----
>> Jeff Albert
>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>> http://www.jeffalbert.com <http://www.jeffalbert.com/>
>> 
>> 
>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 07:24, Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com <mailto:horton.raymond at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I played the  carbon fiber bass Trombone that was at Muncie for the ITW summer 2019. I liked the horn, the way it looks, the way it sounds, and especially the light weight. Not so fond of the high price!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger 
>>> Minister of Music, 
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 5, 2021, at 12:19 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org <mailto:trombone-l at trombonelist.org>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Does it look cool?
>>>> 
>>>> For as much as I used to dig into the minutiae of gear choices, in my old(er?) age I am finding myself much more in the camp of play something that feels good and forget about the rest. It sounds like a cool addition. Congrats. I?d love to hear if your perceptions are similar after a month or six with it.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com <http://www.jeffalbert.com/>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 4, 2021, at 20:35, Craig Parmerlee via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> <mailto:trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I have been interested in adding a carbon fiber bell to my Edwards bass setup for a long time.  While I have not had any lasting shoulder or other joint problems, but I have known several bass trombone players who gave up playing early because of the ergonomics of the instrument.  One way to deal with this is through braces and other gadgets that make the instrument easier to hold.  I have used those for a long time.  Another way to address the problem is lighten the weight on the instrument, and carbon fiber is an option.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I made some inquiries 5-10 years ago and nobody was in a position to supply carbon components other than slides.  That has all changed recently, with Butler and some others leading in the expanded use of carbon fiber.  Butler is now making a complete carbon bass trombone (it still has a lot of metal in it, but is much lighter than traditional trombones.)  In my case, I wanted to keep my Edwards horn intact and change only the bell.  Butler is now able to do this, at least with Edwards trombones, and probably others.  They famously updated one of Doug Yeo's Yamaha trombones.
>>>>> 
>>>>> So I received my new Edwards-style carbon fiber bell last week. I'd rather not do a detailed report on an open Internet forum.  I can say it is well made.  It is about 1/3 the weight of the bell it replaced.  I don't notice the weight reduction as much as I feel the better balance.  I never really thought of the original Edwards as particularly nose-heavy, but with the carbon bell, it seems to float on its own.  Timbre is good, intonation is fine.  I notice no reduction in sound volume.  There are a few other differences, but I don't think they are any greater than the difference between a heavy or light bell or yellow versus red brass.  If anybody has a serious interest, I'd be happy to provide additional information and sound samples off list.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus <https://www.avast.com/antivirus>
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org <mailto:Trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org <http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org>
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org <mailto:Trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org <http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org>
>> 
> 
> 
>  <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=icon>	Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=emailclient&utm_term=link> <x-msg://13/#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>


From craig at parmerlee.com  Sun Feb  7 08:34:41 2021
From: craig at parmerlee.com (Craig Parmerlee)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 09:34:41 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <BB33EAB7-012A-44D5-AD4B-0EF9699BAC61@jeffalbert.com>
References: <F0D61A72-4D40-4669-8267-17068DB98EA5@jeffalbert.com>
	<B676B8F6-D24F-490B-BBD2-26E6F54563D0@gmail.com>
	<37BC1806-AF4B-4626-9D67-037153F1CEF5@jeffalbert.com>
	<4c7ab6ab-3815-ede0-d52a-4f449451ca48@parmerlee.com>
	<BB33EAB7-012A-44D5-AD4B-0EF9699BAC61@jeffalbert.com>
Message-ID: <1f7be55b-4916-6cca-cf16-851f1a6c49af@parmerlee.com>

Out front, they do sound similar.? From the player's position, it does 
take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.? It isn't a 
big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.? You can mostly 
play as you always have. ? Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber 
instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the 
light weight and/or looks.

On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To 
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just 
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha 
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>
> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough 
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks 
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you 
> will make it sound like you either way.
>
> -j


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




From jeff at jeffalbert.com  Sun Feb  7 09:17:03 2021
From: jeff at jeffalbert.com (Jeff Albert)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 09:17:03 -0600
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <1f7be55b-4916-6cca-cf16-851f1a6c49af@parmerlee.com>
References: <F0D61A72-4D40-4669-8267-17068DB98EA5@jeffalbert.com>
	<B676B8F6-D24F-490B-BBD2-26E6F54563D0@gmail.com>
	<37BC1806-AF4B-4626-9D67-037153F1CEF5@jeffalbert.com>
	<4c7ab6ab-3815-ede0-d52a-4f449451ca48@parmerlee.com>
	<BB33EAB7-012A-44D5-AD4B-0EF9699BAC61@jeffalbert.com>
	<1f7be55b-4916-6cca-cf16-851f1a6c49af@parmerlee.com>
Message-ID: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>

I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.

One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.

-Jeff

----
Jeff Albert
+1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
http://www.jeffalbert.com


> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> 
> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
> 
> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>> 
>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
>> 
>> -j
> 
> 
> -- 
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> 



From horton.raymond at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 13:05:26 2021
From: horton.raymond at gmail.com (Raymond Horton)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:05:26 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
References: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
Message-ID: <05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>

After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it! 

Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger 
Minister of Music, 
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> 
> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> ----
> Jeff Albert
> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> 
> 
>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
>> 
>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>> 
>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
>>> 
>>> -j
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org



From michaelsanders6 at q.com  Sun Feb  7 14:30:18 2021
From: michaelsanders6 at q.com (Michael Sanders)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:30:18 -0500 (EST)
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>
References: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
	<05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>

I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
 

----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells

After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it! 

Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger 
Minister of Music, 
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> 
> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.
> 
> -Jeff
> 
> ----
> Jeff Albert
> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> 
> 
>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
>> 
>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>> 
>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
>>> 
>>> -j
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org

_______________________________________________
Trombone-l mailing list
Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org



From craig at parmerlee.com  Sun Feb  7 15:01:41 2021
From: craig at parmerlee.com (Craig Parmerlee)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 16:01:41 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>
References: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
	<05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>
	<425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>
Message-ID: <604bf4e8-b7a9-e877-4b80-edf0b92b273f@parmerlee.com>

Carbon fiber definitely will not dent. It might splinter if you hit it 
hard enough, but it is certainly more durable than brass.? If you drive 
your car over the horn, you will crush it, but I can't imagine breaking 
the carbon fiber pieces just banging them against a chair.? With the 
Butler horns (and the DeCarbo as well) there are still lots of metal 
pieces, and you can damage them as usual.? I suppose any of the joints 
could potentially be broken loose.? You might be able to repair that 
with glue.

If you want to continue playing and the weight is a factor, definitely 
do this.? The weight changes everything.? In my case, I replaced only 
the bell.? If you are doing this to prolong your playing days, I'd go 
for the complete horn to get the maximum weight reduction.? I don't 
think you will be sorry.


On 2/7/2021 3:30 PM, Michael Sanders via Trombone-l wrote:
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>   


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus




From jscot at ucalgary.ca  Sun Feb  7 15:05:34 2021
From: jscot at ucalgary.ca (James L Scott)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:05:34 +0000
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>
References: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
	<05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>,
	<425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>
Message-ID: <YQBPR0101MB1377A2E93E29BA3B8A5B511FA1B09@YQBPR0101MB1377.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>

Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used to make some of the strongest cases
for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or chair.

Jim Scott
________________________________
From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells

[?EXTERNAL]



I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.


----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells

After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!

Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger
Minister of Music,
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>
> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>
> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.
>
> -Jeff
>
> ----
> Jeff Albert
> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>
>
>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>
>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
>>
>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>
>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
>>>
>>> -j
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org

_______________________________________________
Trombone-l mailing list
Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org

_______________________________________________
Trombone-l mailing list
Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org

From shiresbone at outlook.com  Sun Feb  7 15:42:58 2021
From: shiresbone at outlook.com (Roger Carmichael)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:42:58 +0000
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <YQBPR0101MB1377A2E93E29BA3B8A5B511FA1B09@YQBPR0101MB1377.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
	<05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>,
	<425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>,
	<YQBPR0101MB1377A2E93E29BA3B8A5B511FA1B09@YQBPR0101MB1377.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <BN6PR07MB384265A637255A83D0DF09C080B09@BN6PR07MB3842.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used to make some of the strongest cases
> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or chair.
> 
> Jim Scott
> ________________________________
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> 
> [?EXTERNAL]
> 
> 
> 
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> 
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> 
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> 
>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>> 
>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.
>> 
>> -Jeff
>> 
>> ----
>> Jeff Albert
>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>> 
>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
>>> 
>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>> 
>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
>>>> 
>>>> -j
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org

From shiresbone at outlook.com  Sun Feb  7 15:45:22 2021
From: shiresbone at outlook.com (Roger Carmichael)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:45:22 +0000
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR07MB384265A637255A83D0DF09C080B09@BN6PR07MB3842.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
References: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
	<05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>,
	<425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>,
	<YQBPR0101MB1377A2E93E29BA3B8A5B511FA1B09@YQBPR0101MB1377.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>,
	<BN6PR07MB384265A637255A83D0DF09C080B09@BN6PR07MB3842.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR07MB384208F4D99766CE3B530C3980B09@BN6PR07MB3842.namprd07.prod.outlook.com>

Bass not mass 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Roger Carmichael via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> ?What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used to make some of the strongest cases
>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or chair.
>> 
>> Jim Scott
>> ________________________________
>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> 
>> [?EXTERNAL]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> 
>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>> 
>> Raymond Horton
>> Composer/Arranger
>> Minister of Music,
>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>> 
>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>> 
>>> -Jeff
>>> 
>>> ----
>>> Jeff Albert
>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -j
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org

From jmdanner at samford.edu  Sun Feb  7 15:52:26 2021
From: jmdanner at samford.edu (Danner, Mearl)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:52:26 +0000
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>
References: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
	<05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>,
	<425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>
Message-ID: <BN6PR22MB01291B881C284725F4F09567D5B09@BN6PR22MB0129.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake. Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault, sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save the price of the slide over the years.

Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.

Mearl


________________________________
From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
To: Raymond Horton
Cc: trombone-l
Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells

I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.


----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells

After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!

Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger
Minister of Music,
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>
> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>
> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.
>
> -Jeff
>
> ----
> Jeff Albert
> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
>
>
>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>
>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
>>
>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>
>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
>>>
>>> -j
>>
>>
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org

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From horton.raymond at gmail.com  Sun Feb  7 16:24:13 2021
From: horton.raymond at gmail.com (Raymond Horton)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:24:13 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <YQBPR0101MB1377A2E93E29BA3B8A5B511FA1B09@YQBPR0101MB1377.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
References: <YQBPR0101MB1377A2E93E29BA3B8A5B511FA1B09@YQBPR0101MB1377.CANPRD01.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM>
Message-ID: <DC8512DF-4BD0-401E-B6ED-7CB130433D21@gmail.com>

Excellent question! I can speak to carbon fiber slides, in relation to the Pbone. I took one on an educational trio gig, just to show as a curiosity. We were seated on very heavy, old-fashioned type wooden school chairs. I had the Pbone stuffed loosely in my double trombone gig bag next to my chair. At one point I leaned over to get a mute or something. The carbon fiber slide slipped under the leg of the chair and I sat down on it - all 200 pounds of me plus a lot of weight from the chair, and the slide was not damaged in the least!

Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger 
Minister of Music, 
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:05 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> 
> ?
> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used to make some of the strongest cases
> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or chair.
> 
> Jim Scott
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>  
> [?EXTERNAL]
> 
> 
> 
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> 
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> 
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> 
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org


From craig at parmerlee.com  Sun Feb  7 19:11:02 2021
From: craig at parmerlee.com (Craig Parmerlee)
Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 20:11:02 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
In-Reply-To: <BN6PR22MB01291B881C284725F4F09567D5B09@BN6PR22MB0129.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <572EEDB6-F2FC-40D7-AC62-FB6C38897992@jeffalbert.com>
	<05725152-4BA0-4BD5-BD78-BB16B7EB66CD@gmail.com>
	<425488191.111808495.1612729818923.JavaMail.zimbra@q.com>
	<BN6PR22MB01291B881C284725F4F09567D5B09@BN6PR22MB0129.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <33674c5b-8967-0e3d-61d0-b64b7754df67@parmerlee.com>

I have had 3 carbon fiber slides over the years (not counting the pBone 
-- which I think is fiberglass & resin).? One was an early "Jimmy Dell" 
slide.? The other two I still own are made by Spurling.? I've never 
damaged any of them.? The is zero probability of denting the tubes, but 
they all have brass end crooks, which can be dented as usual.? The 
Butler slides have carbon fiber end crooks.

They are bound to be a lot more durable than brass slides.? The only 
drawback is that if they aren't aligned perfectly, you can't adjust 
them.? But if they are built right, they will never change alignment.



On 2/7/2021 4:52 PM, Danner, Mearl via Trombone-l wrote:
> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake. Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault, sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save the price of the slide over the years.
>
> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>
> Mearl
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
> To: Raymond Horton
> Cc: trombone-l
> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>
>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>
>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>
>> -Jeff
>>
>> ----
>> Jeff Albert
>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
>>
>>
>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light weight and/or looks.
>>>
>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>
>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>
>>>> -j
>>>
>>> --
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> _______________________________________________
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> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
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> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> _______________________________________________
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> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org





From lokkenbrown at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 22:23:27 2021
From: lokkenbrown at gmail.com (Laurie Brown)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 21:23:27 -0700
Subject: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <mailman.0.1612807205.1072191.trombone-l_trombonelist.org@trombonelist.org>
References: <mailman.0.1612807205.1072191.trombone-l_trombonelist.org@trombonelist.org>
Message-ID: <CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>

I checked with deCarbo and found they do not make a Bass Trombone version.
As a 64 year old female who loves to play Bass trombone and finding it
harder to hold my Bach 50B. I don?t even try my double rotor Bach.

So what company makes the Bass trombone that is referenced in this chain of
notes?  I?ve been out of playing in anything but a Community band in
decades so I am not familiar with all of the manufacturers out there these
days. I?ve stuck with my 8H, 88H tenors and my 2 Bach bass trombones for
decades. Which, by the way, I?m looking to sell the 8H and the Bach double
rotor to any interested parties.

Laurie Brown
BA Music Ed 1976
Former 1stMarine Division Band (mid-70s)
Retired Aerospace Engineer
Now Realtor in Southern AZ
Music ? lover


On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:00 AM <trombone-l-request at trombonelist.org> wrote:

> Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to
>         trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>
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>
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> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..."
> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
>    2. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Michael Sanders)
>    3. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>    4. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (James L Scott)
>    5. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
>    6. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
>    7. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Danner, Mearl)
>    8. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
>    9. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> To: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: craig at parmerlee.com, List Trombone <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:05:26 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>, trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:30:18 -0500 (EST)
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> To: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, Raymond Horton <
> horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 16:01:41 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> Carbon fiber definitely will not dent. It might splinter if you hit it
> hard enough, but it is certainly more durable than brass.  If you drive
> your car over the horn, you will crush it, but I can't imagine breaking
> the carbon fiber pieces just banging them against a chair.  With the
> Butler horns (and the DeCarbo as well) there are still lots of metal
> pieces, and you can damage them as usual.  I suppose any of the joints
> could potentially be broken loose.  You might be able to repair that
> with glue.
>
> If you want to continue playing and the weight is a factor, definitely
> do this.  The weight changes everything.  In my case, I replaced only
> the bell.  If you are doing this to prolong your playing days, I'd go
> for the complete horn to get the maximum weight reduction.  I don't
> think you will be sorry.
>
>
> On 2/7/2021 3:30 PM, Michael Sanders via Trombone-l wrote:
> > I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
> >
>
>
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
> michaelsanders6 at q.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:05:34 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used
> to make some of the strongest cases
> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you
> can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or
> chair.
>
> Jim Scott
> ________________________________
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> [?EXTERNAL]
>
>
>
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> Cc: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
> michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:42:58 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell
> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> used to make some of the strongest cases
> > for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
> or chair.
> >
> > Jim Scott
> > ________________________________
> > From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> > To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> > Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > [?EXTERNAL]
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> > Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >
> > Raymond Horton
> > Composer/Arranger
> > Minister of Music,
> > Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> > Retired Bass Trombonist,
> > Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>
> >> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>
> >> -Jeff
> >>
> >> ----
> >> Jeff Albert
> >> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>
> >>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>
> >>>> -j
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> To: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> Cc: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>, trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:45:22 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> Bass not mass
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Roger Carmichael via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell
> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> used to make some of the strongest cases
> >> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
> or chair.
> >>
> >> Jim Scott
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> >> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> [?EXTERNAL]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>
> >> Raymond Horton
> >> Composer/Arranger
> >> Minister of Music,
> >> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>
> >>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>
> >>> -Jeff
> >>>
> >>> ----
> >>> Jeff Albert
> >>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -j
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>
> To: "trombone-l at trombonelist.org" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:52:26 +0000
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
> the price of the slide over the years.
>
> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>
> Mearl
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
> To: Raymond Horton
> Cc: trombone-l
> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>
> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >
> > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >
> > -Jeff
> >
> > ----
> > Jeff Albert
> > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
> >
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>
> >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>
> >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>
> >>> -j
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>
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>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> Cc: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:24:13 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> Excellent question! I can speak to carbon fiber slides, in relation to the
> Pbone. I took one on an educational trio gig, just to show as a curiosity.
> We were seated on very heavy, old-fashioned type wooden school chairs. I
> had the Pbone stuffed loosely in my double trombone gig bag next to my
> chair. At one point I leaned over to get a mute or something. The carbon
> fiber slide slipped under the leg of the chair and I sat down on it - all
> 200 pounds of me plus a lot of weight from the chair, and the slide was not
> damaged in the least!
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:05 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> >
> > ?
> > Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> used to make some of the strongest cases
> > for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
> or chair.
> >
> > Jim Scott
> > From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> > To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> > Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > [?EXTERNAL]
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> > Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >
> > Raymond Horton
> > Composer/Arranger
> > Minister of Music,
> > Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> > Retired Bass Trombonist,
> > Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >
> > > On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> > >
> > > One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> > >
> > > -Jeff
> > >
> > > ----
> > > Jeff Albert
> > > +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> > > http://www.jeffalbert.com
> > >
> > >
> > >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> > >>
> > >>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> > >>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> > >>>
> > >>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will make it sound like you either way.
> > >>>
> > >>> -j
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> > >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> > >>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Trombone-l mailing list
> > > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> To: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>, "trombone-l at trombonelist.org"
> <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 20:11:02 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> I have had 3 carbon fiber slides over the years (not counting the pBone
> -- which I think is fiberglass & resin).  One was an early "Jimmy Dell"
> slide.  The other two I still own are made by Spurling.  I've never
> damaged any of them.  The is zero probability of denting the tubes, but
> they all have brass end crooks, which can be dented as usual.  The
> Butler slides have carbon fiber end crooks.
>
> They are bound to be a lot more durable than brass slides.  The only
> drawback is that if they aren't aligned perfectly, you can't adjust
> them.  But if they are built right, they will never change alignment.
>
>
>
> On 2/7/2021 4:52 PM, Danner, Mearl via Trombone-l wrote:
> > I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
> the price of the slide over the years.
> >
> > Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
> >
> > Mearl
> >
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
> > To: Raymond Horton
> > Cc: trombone-l
> > Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> > Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> > Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >
> > After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >
> > Raymond Horton
> > Composer/Arranger
> > Minister of Music,
> > Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> > Retired Bass Trombonist,
> > Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >
> >> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>
> >> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>
> >> -Jeff
> >>
> >> ----
> >> Jeff Albert
> >> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
> weight and/or looks.
> >>>
> >>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>
> >>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>
> >>>> -j
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>
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> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >
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> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
-- 



Laurie Brown


From horton.raymond at gmail.com  Mon Feb  8 23:56:44 2021
From: horton.raymond at gmail.com (Raymond Horton)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 00:56:44 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <91E0DDAC-4FB6-4E51-B10B-3E8852C2822B@gmail.com>

Sorry, I just assumed it was the same brand. I honestly do not remember. Keep hunting around you?ll find it

Raymond Horton
Composer/Arranger 
Minister of Music, 
Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
Retired Bass Trombonist,
Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016

> On Feb 8, 2021, at 11:24 PM, Laurie Brown via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> ?I checked with deCarbo and found they do not make a Bass Trombone version.
> As a 64 year old female who loves to play Bass trombone and finding it
> harder to hold my Bach 50B. I don?t even try my double rotor Bach.
> 
> So what company makes the Bass trombone that is referenced in this chain of
> notes?  I?ve been out of playing in anything but a Community band in
> decades so I am not familiar with all of the manufacturers out there these
> days. I?ve stuck with my 8H, 88H tenors and my 2 Bach bass trombones for
> decades. Which, by the way, I?m looking to sell the 8H and the Bach double
> rotor to any interested parties.
> 
> Laurie Brown
> BA Music Ed 1976
> Former 1stMarine Division Band (mid-70s)
> Retired Aerospace Engineer
> Now Realtor in Southern AZ
> Music ? lover
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:00 AM <trombone-l-request at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
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>>        trombone-l-owner at trombonelist.org
>> 
>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>> than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..."
>> Today's Topics:
>> 
>>   1. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
>>   2. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Michael Sanders)
>>   3. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>>   4. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (James L Scott)
>>   5. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
>>   6. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
>>   7. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Danner, Mearl)
>>   8. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
>>   9. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>> To: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>> Cc: craig at parmerlee.com, List Trombone <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:05:26 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>> 
>> Raymond Horton
>> Composer/Arranger
>> Minister of Music,
>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>> 
>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>> 
>>> -Jeff
>>> 
>>> ----
>>> Jeff Albert
>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>> weight and/or looks.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -j
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>
>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>> Cc: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>, trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:30:18 -0500 (EST)
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> 
>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>> 
>> Raymond Horton
>> Composer/Arranger
>> Minister of Music,
>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>> 
>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>> 
>>> -Jeff
>>> 
>>> ----
>>> Jeff Albert
>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>> weight and/or looks.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -j
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>> To: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, Raymond Horton <
>> horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 16:01:41 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> Carbon fiber definitely will not dent. It might splinter if you hit it
>> hard enough, but it is certainly more durable than brass.  If you drive
>> your car over the horn, you will crush it, but I can't imagine breaking
>> the carbon fiber pieces just banging them against a chair.  With the
>> Butler horns (and the DeCarbo as well) there are still lots of metal
>> pieces, and you can damage them as usual.  I suppose any of the joints
>> could potentially be broken loose.  You might be able to repair that
>> with glue.
>> 
>> If you want to continue playing and the weight is a factor, definitely
>> do this.  The weight changes everything.  In my case, I replaced only
>> the bell.  If you are doing this to prolong your playing days, I'd go
>> for the complete horn to get the maximum weight reduction.  I don't
>> think you will be sorry.
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/7/2021 3:30 PM, Michael Sanders via Trombone-l wrote:
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
>> michaelsanders6 at q.com>
>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:05:34 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used
>> to make some of the strongest cases
>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you
>> can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or
>> chair.
>> 
>> Jim Scott
>> ________________________________
>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> 
>> [?EXTERNAL]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> 
>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>> 
>> Raymond Horton
>> Composer/Arranger
>> Minister of Music,
>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>> 
>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>> 
>>> -Jeff
>>> 
>>> ----
>>> Jeff Albert
>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>> weight and/or looks.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -j
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>> Cc: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
>> michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:42:58 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell
>> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>> or chair.
>>> 
>>> Jim Scott
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> [?EXTERNAL]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>> To: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>> Cc: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>, trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:45:22 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> Bass not mass
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Roger Carmichael via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell
>> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>> or chair.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Scott
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> [?EXTERNAL]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
>> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
>> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
>> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
>> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
>> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
>> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
>> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>
>> To: "trombone-l at trombonelist.org" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:52:26 +0000
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
>> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
>> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
>> the price of the slide over the years.
>> 
>> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>> 
>> Mearl
>> 
>> 
>> ________________________________
>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
>> To: Raymond Horton
>> Cc: trombone-l
>> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> 
>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>> 
>> 
>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> 
>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>> 
>> Raymond Horton
>> Composer/Arranger
>> Minister of Music,
>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>> 
>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>> 
>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>> 
>>> -Jeff
>>> 
>>> ----
>>> Jeff Albert
>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>> 
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>> weight and/or looks.
>>>> 
>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -j
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> 
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> 
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>> Cc: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:24:13 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> Excellent question! I can speak to carbon fiber slides, in relation to the
>> Pbone. I took one on an educational trio gig, just to show as a curiosity.
>> We were seated on very heavy, old-fashioned type wooden school chairs. I
>> had the Pbone stuffed loosely in my double trombone gig bag next to my
>> chair. At one point I leaned over to get a mute or something. The carbon
>> fiber slide slipped under the leg of the chair and I sat down on it - all
>> 200 pounds of me plus a lot of weight from the chair, and the slide was not
>> damaged in the least!
>> 
>> Raymond Horton
>> Composer/Arranger
>> Minister of Music,
>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:05 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ?
>>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>> or chair.
>>> 
>>> Jim Scott
>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> [?EXTERNAL]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
>> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
>> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
>> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
>> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
>> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
>> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
>> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>> To: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>, "trombone-l at trombonelist.org"
>> <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>> Cc:
>> Bcc:
>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 20:11:02 -0500
>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>> I have had 3 carbon fiber slides over the years (not counting the pBone
>> -- which I think is fiberglass & resin).  One was an early "Jimmy Dell"
>> slide.  The other two I still own are made by Spurling.  I've never
>> damaged any of them.  The is zero probability of denting the tubes, but
>> they all have brass end crooks, which can be dented as usual.  The
>> Butler slides have carbon fiber end crooks.
>> 
>> They are bound to be a lot more durable than brass slides.  The only
>> drawback is that if they aren't aligned perfectly, you can't adjust
>> them.  But if they are built right, they will never change alignment.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 2/7/2021 4:52 PM, Danner, Mearl via Trombone-l wrote:
>>> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
>> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
>> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
>> the price of the slide over the years.
>>> 
>>> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>>> 
>>> Mearl
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
>>> To: Raymond Horton
>>> Cc: trombone-l
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> 
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> Laurie Brown
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org



From publisher at briarmusic.com  Tue Feb  9 00:51:02 2021
From: publisher at briarmusic.com (Robert Holland)
Date: Tue, 09 Feb 2021 00:51:02 -0600
Subject: [Trombone-l] promotional inquiry
Message-ID: <ed94414c29458976e7581a0c3ea9f98c@briarmusic.com>

The daughter of one of the composers of two works for trombone and piano
in the Briar Music Press catalog has inquired about those who may have
performed the works of her father. The two works are the _Concertino_
and the _Recitative and Prayer_ by William Barnes Hoskins (1917-1998).
These two works were apparently promoted by Thomas Cramer during his
time as professor of trombone at the Oberlin Conservatory of Music, who
later helped me to prepare the works for publication in 2006. If anyone
has any recollections of these two works to share, I'd appreciate your
writing to me either on- or off-list so that I can forward whatever you
may have to Dorothy Hoskins. She is interested in developing a Wikipedia
entry so that her father's compositions are not entirely forgotten. 

Thanks,

Robert Holland, Publisher
 Briar Music Press
 publisher at briarmusic.com
 www.briarmusic.com [1] 

Links:
------
[1] http://www.briarmusic.com

From jeff at jeffalbert.com  Tue Feb  9 07:05:02 2021
From: jeff at jeffalbert.com (Jeff Albert)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 07:05:02 -0600
Subject: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <91E0DDAC-4FB6-4E51-B10B-3E8852C2822B@gmail.com>
References: <CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<91E0DDAC-4FB6-4E51-B10B-3E8852C2822B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <399C1714-DAC7-4411-B688-7ADD5566B98C@jeffalbert.com>

It was Butler. Craig?s bell is a Butler.

----
Jeff Albert
+1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
http://www.jeffalbert.com


> On Feb 8, 2021, at 23:56, Raymond Horton via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> 
> Sorry, I just assumed it was the same brand. I honestly do not remember. Keep hunting around you?ll find it
> 
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger 
> Minister of Music, 
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> 
>> On Feb 8, 2021, at 11:24 PM, Laurie Brown via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>> 
>> ?I checked with deCarbo and found they do not make a Bass Trombone version.
>> As a 64 year old female who loves to play Bass trombone and finding it
>> harder to hold my Bach 50B. I don?t even try my double rotor Bach.
>> 
>> So what company makes the Bass trombone that is referenced in this chain of
>> notes?  I?ve been out of playing in anything but a Community band in
>> decades so I am not familiar with all of the manufacturers out there these
>> days. I?ve stuck with my 8H, 88H tenors and my 2 Bach bass trombones for
>> decades. Which, by the way, I?m looking to sell the 8H and the Bach double
>> rotor to any interested parties.
>> 
>> Laurie Brown
>> BA Music Ed 1976
>> Former 1stMarine Division Band (mid-70s)
>> Retired Aerospace Engineer
>> Now Realtor in Southern AZ
>> Music ? lover
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:00 AM <trombone-l-request at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to
>>>       trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>> 
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>       trombone-l-request at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> You can reach the person managing the list at
>>>       trombone-l-owner at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
>>> than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..."
>>> Today's Topics:
>>> 
>>>  1. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
>>>  2. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Michael Sanders)
>>>  3. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>>>  4. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (James L Scott)
>>>  5. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
>>>  6. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
>>>  7. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Danner, Mearl)
>>>  8. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
>>>  9. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> To: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: craig at parmerlee.com, List Trombone <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:05:26 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>
>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>, trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:30:18 -0500 (EST)
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> To: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, Raymond Horton <
>>> horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 16:01:41 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> Carbon fiber definitely will not dent. It might splinter if you hit it
>>> hard enough, but it is certainly more durable than brass.  If you drive
>>> your car over the horn, you will crush it, but I can't imagine breaking
>>> the carbon fiber pieces just banging them against a chair.  With the
>>> Butler horns (and the DeCarbo as well) there are still lots of metal
>>> pieces, and you can damage them as usual.  I suppose any of the joints
>>> could potentially be broken loose.  You might be able to repair that
>>> with glue.
>>> 
>>> If you want to continue playing and the weight is a factor, definitely
>>> do this.  The weight changes everything.  In my case, I replaced only
>>> the bell.  If you are doing this to prolong your playing days, I'd go
>>> for the complete horn to get the maximum weight reduction.  I don't
>>> think you will be sorry.
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/7/2021 3:30 PM, Michael Sanders via Trombone-l wrote:
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
>>> michaelsanders6 at q.com>
>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:05:34 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is used
>>> to make some of the strongest cases
>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that you
>>> can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand or
>>> chair.
>>> 
>>> Jim Scott
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> [?EXTERNAL]
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>>> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>>> Cc: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
>>> michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:42:58 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell
>>> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>>> or chair.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Scott
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> [?EXTERNAL]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>>> To: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
>>> Cc: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>, trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:45:22 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> Bass not mass
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Roger Carmichael via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell
>>> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>>> or chair.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jim Scott
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>>> 
>>>>> [?EXTERNAL]
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>>> 
>>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
>>> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
>>> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
>>> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
>>> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> ----
>>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
>>> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
>>> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
>>> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>
>>> To: "trombone-l at trombonelist.org" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Cc:
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:52:26 +0000
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
>>> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
>>> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
>>> the price of the slide over the years.
>>> 
>>> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>>> 
>>> Mearl
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
>>> To: Raymond Horton
>>> Cc: trombone-l
>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> 
>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I really
>>> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder problems
>>> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
>>> would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>> 
>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>> 
>>>> -Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> ----
>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website. To
>>> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just want
>>> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar enough
>>> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
>>> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you will
>>> make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -j
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
>>> Cc: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:24:13 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> Excellent question! I can speak to carbon fiber slides, in relation to the
>>> Pbone. I took one on an educational trio gig, just to show as a curiosity.
>>> We were seated on very heavy, old-fashioned type wooden school chairs. I
>>> had the Pbone stuffed loosely in my double trombone gig bag next to my
>>> chair. At one point I leaned over to get a mute or something. The carbon
>>> fiber slide slipped under the leg of the chair and I sat down on it - all
>>> 200 pounds of me plus a lot of weight from the chair, and the slide was not
>>> damaged in the least!
>>> 
>>> Raymond Horton
>>> Composer/Arranger
>>> Minister of Music,
>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:05 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> ?
>>>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
>>> used to make some of the strongest cases
>>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
>>> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
>>> or chair.
>>>> 
>>>> Jim Scott
>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
>>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
>>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> [?EXTERNAL]
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
>>> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on
>>> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first.
>>> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
>>> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
>>> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
>>> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
>>> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
>>> To: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>, "trombone-l at trombonelist.org"
>>> <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>> Cc:
>>> Bcc:
>>> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 20:11:02 -0500
>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>> I have had 3 carbon fiber slides over the years (not counting the pBone
>>> -- which I think is fiberglass & resin).  One was an early "Jimmy Dell"
>>> slide.  The other two I still own are made by Spurling.  I've never
>>> damaged any of them.  The is zero probability of denting the tubes, but
>>> they all have brass end crooks, which can be dented as usual.  The
>>> Butler slides have carbon fiber end crooks.
>>> 
>>> They are bound to be a lot more durable than brass slides.  The only
>>> drawback is that if they aren't aligned perfectly, you can't adjust
>>> them.  But if they are built right, they will never change alignment.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 2/7/2021 4:52 PM, Danner, Mearl via Trombone-l wrote:
>>>> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
>>> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
>>> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably save
>>> the price of the slide over the years.
>>>> 
>>>> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
>>>> 
>>>> Mearl
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
>>> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
>>>> To: Raymond Horton
>>>> Cc: trombone-l
>>>> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
>>> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up. I
>>> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
>>> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
>>> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang the
>>> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
>>> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or does
>>> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just wondering.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
>>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
>>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
>>>> 
>>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
>>> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
>>> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
>>> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
>>>> 
>>>> Raymond Horton
>>>> Composer/Arranger
>>>> Minister of Music,
>>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
>>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
>>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>>>> 
>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
>>> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
>>> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
>>> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
>>> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
>>>>> 
>>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
>>> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it. He
>>> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
>>> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely see
>>> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
>>> gig?whenever those might happen again.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Jeff
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----
>>>>> Jeff Albert
>>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
>>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
>>> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a big
>>> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly play as
>>> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
>>> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the light
>>> weight and/or looks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
>>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
>>> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
>>> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
>>> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
>>> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
>>> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
>>> will make it sound like you either way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -j
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
>>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> 
>>> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Trombone-l mailing list
>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Laurie Brown
>> _______________________________________________
>> Trombone-l mailing list
>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Trombone-l mailing list
> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org



From georgebutler3rd at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 07:17:00 2021
From: georgebutler3rd at gmail.com (George Butler)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 15:17:00 +0200
Subject: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <mailman.0.1612807205.1072191.trombone-l_trombonelist.org@trombonelist.org>
	<CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAGf8F+7=1TGsRttQid=MYY5Ao_5-F48dZ53a70aezwws=6LGpg@mail.gmail.com>

Hi!  As Jeff said:

The maker is Dave Butler in Dallas.  The bass trombone is not cheap, but,
hey, sell a house and it's yours.
https://butlertrombones.com

--George Butler (absolutely no relation, as far as I know), weary of
shoveling snow here in Tallinn, Estonia--somewhere between Helsinki and
Saint Petersburg--and buying a home and retiring to AZ is starting to look
like an idea.  :-)


From lokkenbrown at gmail.com  Tue Feb  9 00:28:05 2021
From: lokkenbrown at gmail.com (Laurie Brown)
Date: Mon, 8 Feb 2021 23:28:05 -0700
Subject: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <91E0DDAC-4FB6-4E51-B10B-3E8852C2822B@gmail.com>
References: <CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<91E0DDAC-4FB6-4E51-B10B-3E8852C2822B@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAOQ3akf8zu51RShUvqXFheJp--3cJms9ui9x+uuEOpY7CJMmfQ@mail.gmail.com>

Thanks everyone. It?s Butler. I?m going to check them out. At 64, time to
spoil myself.

Laurie Brown

On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 10:56 PM Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Sorry, I just assumed it was the same brand. I honestly do not remember.
> Keep hunting around you?ll find it
>
> Raymond Horton
> Composer/Arranger
> Minister of Music,
> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
>
> > On Feb 8, 2021, at 11:24 PM, Laurie Brown via Trombone-l <
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >
> > ?I checked with deCarbo and found they do not make a Bass Trombone
> version.
> > As a 64 year old female who loves to play Bass trombone and finding it
> > harder to hold my Bach 50B. I don?t even try my double rotor Bach.
> >
> > So what company makes the Bass trombone that is referenced in this chain
> of
> > notes?  I?ve been out of playing in anything but a Community band in
> > decades so I am not familiar with all of the manufacturers out there
> these
> > days. I?ve stuck with my 8H, 88H tenors and my 2 Bach bass trombones for
> > decades. Which, by the way, I?m looking to sell the 8H and the Bach
> double
> > rotor to any interested parties.
> >
> > Laurie Brown
> > BA Music Ed 1976
> > Former 1stMarine Division Band (mid-70s)
> > Retired Aerospace Engineer
> > Now Realtor in Southern AZ
> > Music ? lover
> >
> >
> >> On Mon, Feb 8, 2021 at 11:00 AM <trombone-l-request at trombonelist.org>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Send Trombone-l mailing list submissions to
> >>        trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
> >>
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
> >>        trombone-l-request at trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> You can reach the person managing the list at
> >>        trombone-l-owner at trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
> >> than "Re: Contents of Trombone-l digest..."
> >> Today's Topics:
> >>
> >>   1. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
> >>   2. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Michael Sanders)
> >>   3. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
> >>   4. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (James L Scott)
> >>   5. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
> >>   6. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Roger Carmichael)
> >>   7. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Danner, Mearl)
> >>   8. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Raymond Horton)
> >>   9. Re: Butler carbon fiber bells (Craig Parmerlee)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >> To: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >> Cc: craig at parmerlee.com, List Trombone <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 14:05:26 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really
> >> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems
> >> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> >> would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>
> >> Raymond Horton
> >> Composer/Arranger
> >> Minister of Music,
> >> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>
> >>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> >> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> >> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> >> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>
> >>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> >> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it.
> He
> >> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> >> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see
> >> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> >> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>
> >>> -Jeff
> >>>
> >>> ----
> >>> Jeff Albert
> >>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> >> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
> big
> >> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> play as
> >> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> >> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the
> light
> >> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To
> >> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want
> >> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> >> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough
> >> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> >> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will
> >> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -j
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>
> >> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: Jeff Albert <jeff at jeffalbert.com>, trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:30:18 -0500 (EST)
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> >> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.
> I
> >> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> >> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> >> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang
> the
> >> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> >> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or
> does
> >> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just
> wondering.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really
> >> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems
> >> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> >> would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>
> >> Raymond Horton
> >> Composer/Arranger
> >> Minister of Music,
> >> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>
> >>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> >> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> >> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> >> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>
> >>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> >> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it.
> He
> >> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> >> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see
> >> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> >> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>
> >>> -Jeff
> >>>
> >>> ----
> >>> Jeff Albert
> >>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> >> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
> big
> >> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> play as
> >> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> >> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the
> light
> >> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To
> >> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want
> >> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> >> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough
> >> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> >> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will
> >> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -j
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> >> To: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, Raymond Horton <
> >> horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 16:01:41 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> Carbon fiber definitely will not dent. It might splinter if you hit it
> >> hard enough, but it is certainly more durable than brass.  If you drive
> >> your car over the horn, you will crush it, but I can't imagine breaking
> >> the carbon fiber pieces just banging them against a chair.  With the
> >> Butler horns (and the DeCarbo as well) there are still lots of metal
> >> pieces, and you can damage them as usual.  I suppose any of the joints
> >> could potentially be broken loose.  You might be able to repair that
> >> with glue.
> >>
> >> If you want to continue playing and the weight is a factor, definitely
> >> do this.  The weight changes everything.  In my case, I replaced only
> >> the bell.  If you are doing this to prolong your playing days, I'd go
> >> for the complete horn to get the maximum weight reduction.  I don't
> >> think you will be sorry.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 2/7/2021 3:30 PM, Michael Sanders via Trombone-l wrote:
> >>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> >> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.
> I
> >> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> >> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> >> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang
> the
> >> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> >> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or
> does
> >> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just
> wondering.
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> >> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
> >> michaelsanders6 at q.com>
> >> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:05:34 +0000
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> used
> >> to make some of the strongest cases
> >> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> you
> >> can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a stand
> or
> >> chair.
> >>
> >> Jim Scott
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> >> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> >> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> [?EXTERNAL]
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> >> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.
> I
> >> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> >> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> >> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang
> the
> >> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> >> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or
> does
> >> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just
> wondering.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really
> >> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems
> >> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> >> would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>
> >> Raymond Horton
> >> Composer/Arranger
> >> Minister of Music,
> >> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>
> >>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> >> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> >> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> >> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>
> >>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> >> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it.
> He
> >> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> >> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see
> >> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> >> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>
> >>> -Jeff
> >>>
> >>> ----
> >>> Jeff Albert
> >>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> >> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
> big
> >> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> play as
> >> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> >> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the
> light
> >> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To
> >> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want
> >> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> >> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough
> >> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> >> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will
> >> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -j
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> >> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> >> Cc: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>, Michael Sanders <
> >> michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:42:58 +0000
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell
> >> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> >> used to make some of the strongest cases
> >>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> >> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a
> stand
> >> or chair.
> >>>
> >>> Jim Scott
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> >> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> >>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>>
> >>> [?EXTERNAL]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> >> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.
> I
> >> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> >> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> >> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang
> the
> >> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> >> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or
> does
> >> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just
> wondering.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>>
> >>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> >> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> >> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> >> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>>
> >>> Raymond Horton
> >>> Composer/Arranger
> >>> Minister of Music,
> >>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> >> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> >> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> >> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>>
> >>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
> Orleans
> >> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it.
> He
> >> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> >> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see
> >> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> >> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Jeff
> >>>>
> >>>> ----
> >>>> Jeff Albert
> >>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
> does
> >> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
> big
> >> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> play as
> >> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> >> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the
> light
> >> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> >> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> >> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> >> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> >> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> >> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making
> you
> >> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -j
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> >> To: Roger Carmichael <shiresbone at outlook.com>
> >> Cc: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>, trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:45:22 +0000
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> Bass not mass
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:44 PM, Roger Carmichael via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?What price range are we talking?  Is there a  carbon fiber 9? bell
> >> available for an older SE Shires double rotor mass?
> >>>
> >>> Sent from my iPhone
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:06 PM, James L Scott via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ?Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> >> used to make some of the strongest cases
> >>>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> >> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a
> stand
> >> or chair.
> >>>>
> >>>> Jim Scott
> >>>> ________________________________
> >>>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> >> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> >>>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >>>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>>>
> >>>> [?EXTERNAL]
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I
> am
> >> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.
> I
> >> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> >> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> >> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang
> the
> >> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> >> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or
> does
> >> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just
> wondering.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >>>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>>>
> >>>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> >> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> >> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> >> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>>>
> >>>> Raymond Horton
> >>>> Composer/Arranger
> >>>> Minister of Music,
> >>>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >>>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >>>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>>>
> >>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of
> the
> >> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> >> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> >> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
> >> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds
> great on
> >> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at
> first.
> >> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can
> definitely
> >> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> >> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -Jeff
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ----
> >>>>> Jeff Albert
> >>>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
> >> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It
> isn't a
> >> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> >> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> >> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the
> light
> >> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> >> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> >> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> >> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> >> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> >> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making
> you
> >> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -j
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> --
> >>>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>
> >> To: "trombone-l at trombonelist.org" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Cc:
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 21:52:26 +0000
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
> >> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
> >> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably
> save
> >> the price of the slide over the years.
> >>
> >> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
> >>
> >> Mearl
> >>
> >>
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> >> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
> >> To: Raymond Horton
> >> Cc: trombone-l
> >> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> >> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.
> I
> >> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> >> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> >> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang
> the
> >> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> >> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or
> does
> >> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just
> wondering.
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>
> >> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> really
> >> wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> problems
> >> after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10 years. I
> >> would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>
> >> Raymond Horton
> >> Composer/Arranger
> >> Minister of Music,
> >> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>
> >>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> >> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> >> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> >> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>
> >>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New Orleans
> >> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it.
> He
> >> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> >> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see
> >> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> >> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>
> >>> -Jeff
> >>>
> >>> ----
> >>> Jeff Albert
> >>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>>
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it does
> >> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
> big
> >> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> play as
> >> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> >> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the
> light
> >> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> To
> >> be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> want
> >> a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> >> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> enough
> >> that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort, looks
> >> cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making you
> will
> >> make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> -j
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >> To: James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca>
> >> Cc: Michael Sanders <michaelsanders6 at q.com>, trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 17:24:13 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> Excellent question! I can speak to carbon fiber slides, in relation to
> the
> >> Pbone. I took one on an educational trio gig, just to show as a
> curiosity.
> >> We were seated on very heavy, old-fashioned type wooden school chairs. I
> >> had the Pbone stuffed loosely in my double trombone gig bag next to my
> >> chair. At one point I leaned over to get a mute or something. The carbon
> >> fiber slide slipped under the leg of the chair and I sat down on it -
> all
> >> 200 pounds of me plus a lot of weight from the chair, and the slide was
> not
> >> damaged in the least!
> >>
> >> Raymond Horton
> >> Composer/Arranger
> >> Minister of Music,
> >> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 4:05 PM, James L Scott <jscot at ucalgary.ca> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ?
> >>> Carbon fiber is an extremely strong material. It doesn't dent, and is
> >> used to make some of the strongest cases
> >>> for musical instruments (among other things). Very little chance that
> >> you can damage a carbon fibre instrument, at least by just bumping a
> stand
> >> or chair.
> >>>
> >>> Jim Scott
> >>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> >> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 1:30 PM
> >>> To: Raymond Horton <horton.raymond at gmail.com>
> >>> Cc: trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>>
> >>> [?EXTERNAL]
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> >> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.
> I
> >> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> >> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> >> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang
> the
> >> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> >> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or
> does
> >> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just
> wondering.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>>
> >>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> >> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> >> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> >> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>>
> >>> Raymond Horton
> >>> Composer/Arranger
> >>> Minister of Music,
> >>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> ?I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> >> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> >> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> >> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>>
> >>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
> >> Orleans has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds
> great on
> >> it. He let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at
> first.
> >> I am not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can
> definitely
> >> see how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> >> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Jeff
> >>>>
> >>>> ----
> >>>> Jeff Albert
> >>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>>> http://www.jeffalbert.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
> >> does take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It
> isn't a
> >> big adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> >> play as you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> >> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the
> light
> >> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> >> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> >> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> >> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> >> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> >> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making
> you
> >> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -j
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> >> To: "Danner, Mearl" <jmdanner at samford.edu>, "
> trombone-l at trombonelist.org"
> >> <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >> Cc:
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Sun, 7 Feb 2021 20:11:02 -0500
> >> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >> I have had 3 carbon fiber slides over the years (not counting the pBone
> >> -- which I think is fiberglass & resin).  One was an early "Jimmy Dell"
> >> slide.  The other two I still own are made by Spurling.  I've never
> >> damaged any of them.  The is zero probability of denting the tubes, but
> >> they all have brass end crooks, which can be dented as usual.  The
> >> Butler slides have carbon fiber end crooks.
> >>
> >> They are bound to be a lot more durable than brass slides.  The only
> >> drawback is that if they aren't aligned perfectly, you can't adjust
> >> them.  But if they are built right, they will never change alignment.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 2/7/2021 4:52 PM, Danner, Mearl via Trombone-l wrote:
> >>> I'm a community band player also. Considered one for durabilities sake.
> >> Seems I have a slide dented about once a year. Sometimes my fault,
> >> sometimes not. Cramped venues, careless trumpets, etc. Would probably
> save
> >> the price of the slide over the years.
> >>>
> >>> Had one on order but had to cancel. Life gets in the way occasionally.
> >>>
> >>> Mearl
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ________________________________
> >>> From: Trombone-l <trombone-l-bounces at trombonelist.org> on behalf of
> >> Michael Sanders via Trombone-l <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 2:31 PM
> >>> To: Raymond Horton
> >>> Cc: trombone-l
> >>> Subject: [EXTERNAL]Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>>
> >>> I'm only a non professional player in a community band in Utah and I am
> >> getting to the age where I don't know how much longer I can keep it up.
> I
> >> have been following the comments about carbon fiber bells and slides.  A
> >> question has arisen in my mind.  These things are very expensive and I
> >> imagine that carbon fiber is rather brittle.  What happens if you bang
> the
> >> slide or the bell against a stand or other hard object?  Does it make a
> >> dent as in brass or does it crack and splinter?  Can it be repaired or
> does
> >> the unfortunate owner have to replace it at great expense?  Just
> wondering.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ----- Original Message -----From: "trombone-l" <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> To: "Jeff Albert" <jeff at jeffalbert.com>
> >>> Cc: "trombone-l" <trombone-l at trombonelist.org>
> >>> Sent: Sunday, February 7, 2021 11:05:26 AM
> >>> Subject: Re: [Trombone-l] Butler carbon fiber bells
> >>>
> >>> After trying that carbon fiber bass trombone in Muncie last year, I
> >> really wished it had been available back when I first developed shoulder
> >> problems after playing my heavy bell Bach 50B with Thayer valves for 10
> >> years. I would have gladly paid the money for it!
> >>>
> >>> Raymond Horton
> >>> Composer/Arranger
> >>> Minister of Music,
> >>> Edwardsville (IN) United Methodist Church
> >>> Retired Bass Trombonist,
> >>> Louisville Orchestra, 1970-2016
> >>>
> >>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 10:18 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l <
> >> trombone-l at trombonelist.org> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> I remember Gabe Langfur making the point (years ago) that much of the
> >> mouthpiece/instrument design/weight/materials stuff we like to dig into
> >> matters significantly more from the player perspective than the listener
> >> perspective. I have come to agree with that take.
> >>>>
> >>>> One of the younger (and excellent) trombone players here in New
> Orleans
> >> has a carbon fiber slide for his Yamaha bell and he sounds great on it.
> He
> >> let me play it, and it is so light that it threw me a bit at first. I am
> >> not used to feeling so little mass in my slide hand. I can definitely
> see
> >> how a carbon fiber slide is an advantage in a New Orleans parade
> >> gig?whenever those might happen again.
> >>>>
> >>>> -Jeff
> >>>>
> >>>> ----
> >>>> Jeff Albert
> >>>> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> >>>>
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1IiATE7dH_Fr7bXBFWjFYoOX-mmWXQ66bJdeoM2rZQR9yGOwmIxtfEJUJUO5ArPJbOQ4zC4xabkFQgCIbq8JOCn2Ln6Bl70C-pTtjRSkiYNtyFU4WKQP2NGFw4bFqWo8L77tSyOmDKLKt63sUYLwlByfotRTLI1JsNbi8763r_dCMltvuW35mugJZxjuFZiCrTeuQky3qRTu2Y6JkGmM7DRR4KxlfoIEczYFHyQnGaFORirb3Zy4Gouvd3mfBqXkQv9Fb2Oxe28Ao4xLXPehNuG1Xaihv6eL8crfNpmFWORMAWKpfnle8pf8jxXDC7Rve/http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jeffalbert.com
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Feb 7, 2021, at 08:34, Craig Parmerlee <craig at parmerlee.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Out front, they do sound similar.  From the player's position, it
> does
> >> take a little time to adjust to how it sounds from there.  It isn't a
> big
> >> adjustment, like trying to make a pBone sound good.  You can mostly
> play as
> >> you always have.   Overall, I'd say these well-made carbon fiber
> >> instruments are very viable, especially if a person really values the
> light
> >> weight and/or looks.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> On 2/5/2021 10:54 PM, Jeff Albert wrote:
> >>>>>> Yes, it was the deCarbo. Steve does still list them on his website.
> >> To be fully honest I am less interested in the carbon fiber part, I just
> >> want a cool looking black trombone. I guess I could just get my Yamaha
> >> relaquered in black. Would probably be cheaper.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> In the video, the two bells sound pretty similar to me. Similar
> >> enough that I would pick one for some reason other than sound (comfort,
> >> looks cool, whatever), because I think in the heat of the music making
> you
> >> will make it sound like you either way.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -j
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> >>>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
> >>>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>>
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>>
> >>
> http://secure-web.cisco.com/1WLzC0q4mGZ0eiKW_o7D478AKo7s4Vpz-faZ9dAUMhp5AsVflinfj3KHdV8rDwUy_XdvRGYQyd0pBH7ijFpXoyCRPUmTIi3otHsB-DX7Dt5D3XMPAIFqhfShqJxBbpqDfL7exb9_W4CNJBIymRjaxEaD3bQFBHNHBQnjt1Fp_VJKGM8C1cNby8tauYSx89GLJbA6Jxnee7nqH8JnyUWCyQSC9ZVRufsmib2LlbdyysHiFVlJvUnm0KKj1l7ewK6xCXS7uHAgPbIooqwhMn5GoD-K2gr7b_bK61Yn0IJBo7AFEw8P-L-iCcjGENuxfy8ie/http%3A%2F%2Ftrombonelist.org%2Fmailman%2Flistinfo%2Ftrombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Trombone-l mailing list
> >>> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >>> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Trombone-l mailing list
> >> Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> >> http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
> >>
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> > Laurie Brown
> > _______________________________________________
> > Trombone-l mailing list
> > Trombone-l at trombonelist.org
> > http://trombonelist.org/mailman/listinfo/trombone-l_trombonelist.org
>
-- 



Laurie Brown


From JHauser at tntech.edu  Tue Feb  9 07:59:39 2021
From: JHauser at tntech.edu (Hauser, Joshua)
Date: Tue, 9 Feb 2021 13:59:39 +0000
Subject: [Trombone-l] TTU Trombone Day
Message-ID: <B9625FFB-3EF1-4559-BDBD-F8DD46ABD4D4@tntech.edu>

I would like to formally invite you to join us for our annual TTU Trombone Day on Saturday, February 20<x-apple-data-detectors://0>th<x-apple-data-detectors://0>.<x-apple-data-detectors://0>  This year we will be holding our sessions via Zoom rather than in person.

We hope that you and your students can join us!

A letter of participation for professional development credit for teachers is available upon request following the event.

Please pre-register to be sent the zoom link.
Register for TTU Trombone Day 2021 at https://forms.gle/cTMKXrGYpJqjM8KZA

Sincerely,

Joshua Hauser


TENNESSEE TECH TROMBONE DAY

SATURDAY, FEBRUARY 20, 2021<x-apple-data-detectors://3>
9am-12pm CST<x-apple-data-detectors://4>

Join us for this year?s virtual event featuring
Steve Wiest, Trombonist, Composer, and Author
and Jennifer Wharton, Broadway Performer and Low Brass Specialist

Practicing Improvisation Vocabulary
The 21st Century Music Biz "Survive and Thrive"
Vinyl Hampdin: Tracing a track from concept to finished product
?If I can make it there...?  Life as a freelancer in NYC

Performances by Steve Wiest and Trombones at Tech: The TTU Trombone Choir
and the TTU Trombone Day Virtual Ensemble
Steve Wiest, Joshua Hauser, Jason Jackson, Jennifer Wharton
Bill Huber, Roy Agee, Tom Lundberg, Gabriel Langfur Rice
with Colin Hill, Drums

Please pre-register to be sent the zoom link.
Register for TTU Trombone Day 2021 at https://forms.gle/cTMKXrGYpJqjM8KZA

Questions?  Contact Dr. Joshua Hauser at jhauser at tntech.edu<mailto:jhauser at tntech.edu>

Joshua Hauser, Professor of Trombone
TTU School of Music
Box 5045<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
1150 N. Dixie Avenue<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Bryan Fine Arts Building<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
Cookeville, Tennessee 38505<x-apple-data-detectors://1/0>
P 931/372-6086<tel:931/372-6086>
E jhauser at tntech.edu<mailto:jhauser at tntech.edu>
sites.tntech.edu/jhauser<http://http/sites.tntech.edu/jhauser>
Follow the TTU Trombone Choir on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/trombonesattech
Follow Dr. Hauser on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/joshua_hauser
[Tennessee Tech Logo]<https://www.tntech.edu/>
<https://www.tntech.edu/>
Confidentiality Notice: This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed.  If you are not the intended recipient, please be advised that you have received this message in error and that any use, dissemination, printing or copying of this message is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please permanently delete it from your computer system and contact the sender at the above address and/or telephone number.
[cid:CE5554DA-697C-453D-AC0F-B4D043C2E521]

From craig at parmerlee.com  Wed Feb 17 21:21:51 2021
From: craig at parmerlee.com (Craig Parmerlee)
Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2021 22:21:51 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <399C1714-DAC7-4411-B688-7ADD5566B98C@jeffalbert.com>
References: <CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<91E0DDAC-4FB6-4E51-B10B-3E8852C2822B@gmail.com>
	<399C1714-DAC7-4411-B688-7ADD5566B98C@jeffalbert.com>
Message-ID: <4f2446f2-dc86-c0b5-811d-be8bfd539dfc@parmerlee.com>

Right.? Mine is a Butler bell adapted to fit the Edwards system.

Butler did a more extensive "carbonizing" of Doug Yeo's Yamaha bass 
trombone.? That's a custom job.

And now Butler is making their own double-rotor bass trombone.? That has 
all carbon fiber (outer) handslide, carbon fiber bell, and carbon fiber 
tuning slides throughout.? It uses conventional brass rotors.? I haven't 
seen one in person, but it is getting good reviews.


On 2/9/2021 8:05 AM, Jeff Albert via Trombone-l wrote:
> It was Butler. Craig?s bell is a Butler.
>
> ----
> Jeff Albert
> +1 (504) 315-5167 (Signal/SMS/Voice)
> http://www.jeffalbert.com
>


-- 
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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From craig at parmerlee.com  Thu Feb 18 09:39:43 2021
From: craig at parmerlee.com (Craig Parmerlee)
Date: Thu, 18 Feb 2021 10:39:43 -0500
Subject: [Trombone-l] Trombone-l Digest, Vol 48, Issue 6
In-Reply-To: <CAOQ3akf8zu51RShUvqXFheJp--3cJms9ui9x+uuEOpY7CJMmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAOQ3akfOD4wZJAaKm3sO_NZVmfF5T_7axA0JduOUNhgjL=_gHQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<91E0DDAC-4FB6-4E51-B10B-3E8852C2822B@gmail.com>
	<CAOQ3akf8zu51RShUvqXFheJp--3cJms9ui9x+uuEOpY7CJMmfQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <73168035-da93-c998-096f-af57f6ceb8fe@parmerlee.com>

If you do take the plunge, make sure to let us know how you like it.? I 
bet you will like it, especially if it is the thing that can extend a 
person's playing career by 5-10 years.


On 2/9/2021 1:28 AM, Laurie Brown via Trombone-l wrote:
> Thanks everyone. It?s Butler. I?m going to check them out. At 64, time to
> spoil myself.
>
> Laurie Brown


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